about my rogge polyacetal practise set (long post)

[jordan]

Hello everybody,
Well, I promised this a long time ago so here it finally is. I've been touring with my band for the last year or so, and haven't really posted at all. But I've been lurking! Oh, how I've lurked. And I've been reading, and wanted to say thanks to everybody for keeping this place interesting.

I'll jump right in and I'm going to try my hardest not to ramble or be random, but I'm not making any promises.

Okay,
Regarding this post I guess I should say that all of this is just my opinion, that opinions vary, what I believe is maybe not what you believe, and all that. I am not a salesman for Rogge, I have never met him, never spoken to him, and I can't even say for sure if I've ever even had an email from him as most correspondence seems to be with his ?assistant? Jens. I do have a set on order from him that I hope to get before the year is out, and I ordered this chanter to replace the poor old Matt Kiernan chanter that I was learning on.
I should also say that I am not a master piper, nor do I have vast experience with different makers pipes. For what it's worth I have been (seriously) playing for almost two and a half years, and I now play this chanter and the bellows with the rest of the Kiernan set. And I have lots of fun.

I've had my plastic Rogge chanter/practise set for a year now, and my overall opinion is that it is a very good buy, and I would recommend it to any beginner or seasoned player who wants a robust spare chanter for travel or to play outside in the rain. It arrived if I remember correctly exactly 3 days after Rogge got my money order (the german postal system must be something else!), nicely packed in a box, and pretty much ready to play. It was winter and the whole set was freezing, but despite that I strapped in and played a few tunes while it warmed up. And wow, how it warmed up. The first few notes were in tune, but the tone was weak and thin. As I played though, the tone improved dramatically, and after about half an hour and a few minor reed adjustments it was playing great and sounding not too bad. The bag and bellows were set up nicely, and everything was comfortable, so you can pretty much expect it to play well right out of the box.
The basics:
The bellows- The bellows are birch plywood, leather, and delrin. They are unpadded, but are finished nicely and are completely (I mean completely) airtight and function better than any bellows I've tried except for maybe Michael Dow's. The intake valve is delrin wit a rubber flap secured by a machine screw. Works brilliantly.
The bag- The bag is leather, stitched along the edges. The stocks are delrin.
The chanter- made of plastic (obviously), with brass ferrules. The chanter top is plastic as well, not brass as pictured on his website. Looks a bit clunky but not too bad. It has the set screw adjustment for the back d which is nice. It also has brass tubing in the reed seat for super easy tuning adjustments. The chanter is finished nicely, although it hadn't been polished after leaving the cnc lathe so it has sort of a textured surface, common I think, when machining plastics. Hard to explain, but nothing really bad.
To me this chanter plays really well. I have it set up what is probably on the heavy side as far as playing pressure goes. I have no difficulty playing the second octave or reaching any of the really high notes, it does play the third 8ve d and e. Although it plays well set up lightly, having it heavier seems to fill out the tone, and I also find it is more stable in different climates, the only drawback being that this thing is LOUD. Not as loud as a Britton chanter I've played, but still quite loud. When it is playing well it has a killer hard D that’s nice and stable. Although in some climates (colder, drier) it tends towards sharpness in the second 8ve g and above, it is very well in tune and I've had other musicians and other pipers comment on that before they know it's a plastic chanter. They don't have much to say about the tone, though. It really doesn't stand up next to most wooden chanters in that regard, although it's not as pronounced a difference as you might think, and it definitely sounds a lot better than some wooden chanters I've heard! And really most people I've played with have never even noticed it's plastic.
I am still using the original reed, and it sounds better all the time. It has a stamp on it that says "PRG Impregnated" (some sort of glue maybe?) and it is really amazing how well it holds up in massive humidity changes. I've played it here in the manitoba prairies when its 45 below and probably 5% humidity, and I've played it on the bayou in louisiana in about 150% humidity and it has yet to let me down.
The other great thing about this chanter is that it's pretty much indestructible. I've put it through hell and there is literally not a mark on it. When I travel I can pack the whole practise set in a backpack with lots of room to spare.
Okay, problems:
I did have a couple problems, both of which I fixed quite easily.
One of the first things I noticed when I got the set was that the holes on the chanter were quite rough. Most of them had big burrs and they were all really sharp and uncomfortable. I started off just using sandpaper and a file, and they cleaned up nicely. I eventually (after talking with jens) decided to (gasp!) scallop all the holes. I seem to have a thing for scalloped chanters, I've played a couple by Dave Williams that I loved, a beautiful c chanter by K&Q, and I almost killed a guy once for a Rogge chanter that was scalloped. My old chanter had been scalloped and I definitely find it more comfortable. It could be my imagination but I also think it brought the 8ves in tune a bit better. Other than that I noticed no change.
I also had a big problem with the second 8ve e. It was in tune, but was hard to sound, and with a slight variance in pressure, or if the chanter was lifted off the knee at all it would make this horrific screeching sound and drop to the first 8ve. I tried fixing this by opening the reed, as Rogge or Jens suggested but it didn't work. I finally saw a post by Alan Burton mentioning the roll of cardboard between the e and f holes and that fixed it perfectly.
Oh yeah, the bag also started leaking along the seam, but an email and two days later I had some Rogge brand seasoning that worked amazingly.
The only other thing that sucked was the lack of padding on the bellows. I was hurting REALLLLY bad the day after I got the set, so I went to fabricland and got some foam, nice upholstery pins, and some black corduroy and padded them myself. It was easy, looks great, and no more elbow pain.
Well, I guess that’s about all I can think of. If you think I forgot anything or have any specific questions feel free to let me know. I have pictures of the set, if anybody wants them just send me a PM and I'll fire them off. I also just recorded a tune on them and as soon as I can figure out how to get it off my minidisc and onto the clips and snips page I will do it.
I hope someone find this useful, sorry if it was too long.
All the best,
Jordan

[djm]

Jordan, do you dare to reveal the cost to us, and how long it took from time of ordering to time of receipt?

Thx,

djm

[jordan]

hullo djm,
the cost on Rogge's site is 625 Euro, right around 800 US I believe. I don't think I waited more than a couple of weeks once I had sent the money for the set. I got the confirmation he had the money, then literally three days later had the set.
not bad if you ask me!
Jordan

[jordan]

oops, you're canadian too! so that would be about a thousand dollars for us I think. too bad the euro is so strong, the set I ordered from Rogge is going to cost me almost 800 dollars more than when I placed the order!
jordan

[anima]

I understand your enthusiasm and it sounds like a nice beginers set, but Rogge states on his site "The instrument is designed as a pure practice set and is therefore not intended to be upgraded", so it's not really much of a deal in the long run in my mind. Why spend your money on a plastic chanter/non-upgradeable set when for a similar amount of money you could have a pretty decent wood/upgradeable set for about the same amount or just a little more?

I understand the intent here, but the price for set like this should be a lot lower in my mind.

Jeff
Kansas City

[Tony]

$900US gets an O'Grady practice set with 3 key cocobolo chanter.

[djm]

I kinda like the idea of a bullet-proof practice chanter, and I think that the short delivery time makes this very attractive, but I have to agree with others that this is just way too much money for a practice chanter that can't be upgraded (for me).

Thx for the info,

djm

[jordan]

good point anima. You can order the chanter seperately for 295 euro (375 US, 480 CDN) if you don't need the bag and bellows. I hadn't though about it but I guess when I ordered that set the US dollar was a lot higher, and the euro was a bit lower. I was tired of trying to track down a decent used chanter, so I paid just under 900 CDN if i remember correctly, waited two weeks, and ended up with an intstrument that sounds fine and that I don't have to worry about taking care of. For me that was important because I travel a lot and couldn't carry around a big case. Another factor for my decision was that the dimensions of this chanter are identical to his wooden ones, and having a set on order it seemed like a good way to get used to the hole spacing, which turned out to be quite different from my Kiernan chanter.
If i wanted to order a practise set from a U.S. maker at the time I was looking at between 1200-1500 CDN plus about a years wait at least. Seemed like a good idea at the time and I don't regret it.
jordan

[jordan]

from what I've seen and played I would rather have a plastic rogge than a cocobolo O'grady any day. just my opinion and hopefully it's outdated.
and i promise you I wouldn't have fared as well in that bar fight in Idaho with a flimsy chunk of cocobolo! hah.
jordan

[tommykleen]

...let me just add that Jordan is no mere punter. He stopped by the house a year or more ago and we played some tunes. Well, he played and I listened while I was trying to find my jaw. Jordan is an awesome piper. One to watch. And he had only been playing for little over a year when I heard him. Sorry to out you Jordan. But you rock. Oh and check out his band The Duks. (hope I spelled that right).

t

[Lorenzo]

Jordan, do you frail or is that a tenor? If so, pm or email me your address and I'll send you one of our CDs. I double in a band with a claw hammerer. This guy's totally clean, way up the neck, hardly any side noise. We play some cool modal tunes with uilleann pipe drones and regs along with bouzouki for accompaniment, like Sally in the Garden in Dm. This friend of mine builds banjos and ships them all over the world.

[jordan]

hey, thanks for the kind words tommykleen (didn't know that was you!), but it was hardly as one-sided as that, I really enjoyed hearing you play as well. How's that scalloped Rogge chanter going, anyway? I'm sending you a PM.

Lorenzo, I play tenor banjo with my band, and it's a tenor in the little picture. Interestingly enough its one of the first that I made and sent out into the world. Who's your friend? I've met a few banjo-makers in my travels...
I'm not sure what frailing is but i bet if it has to do with clawhammer banjo my man leonard does it. He's outrageously good. I'll PM you aout the CDs.

jordan

[Lorenzo]

His name is Vern Marr. He builds tenors and bass banjos as well. He has a thousand templates for Mother of Perl inlays and Abalone...some of most precise outrageous custom inlays you'll ever see anywhere. He's at vmarr@feves.com

[anima]

Ok, I'm really not trying to be a jerk here ( and really no offense is meant), but you put a certain amount of after market work into this set (filing burrs, sealing leaks)..... of course I've never heard an O'grady set before too, so the point may be moot. I dunno

Jeff

[Thies]

I've had my plastic Rogge chanter/practise set for a year now, and my overall opinion is that it is a very good buy, and I would recommend it to any beginner or seasoned player who wants a robust spare chanter for travel or to play outside in the rain.

I can only support Jordan's opinion about the Rogge polyacetal practice set. I have one myself since some time and I made the same good experiences.
It plays fine (for me ... maybe I'm lacking also comparison to other chanters) and it has a full (some may call it loud) sound. So you won't be missed.

I am still using the original reed, and it sounds better all the time. It has a stamp on it that says "PRG Impregnated" (some sort of glue maybe?) and it is really amazing how well it holds up in massive humidity changes.

I guess that this "PRG Impregnated" is the treatment for the cane which they apply to some reeds. I should make the reed more stable under humidity changes. Jens told me about it last time when I ordered something from their workshop. I have an address (in Germany) here where you can order this cane. Please send a PM.

I hope to find some time to post some pictures of the set in February.

Best regards, Thies