tuneing chanter
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James Connelly
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:43 am
tuneing chanter
I sure miss spell check. Is tuneing spelled tuneing or tuning? I don't know & I'm too lazy to look it up. Anyway, my question is, can the reed in the chanter be pushed in farther to make the sound higher (or pulled out to lower the sound) or is moveing the bridle (or squeezing the reed a little to open it) the only way to adjust the tone? Which is best? Also can the the chanter be sanded (where the holes are) to lower the finger placement so that the position of the fingers can be felt in the correct place? I can't feel the holes when I play and some times I'm a little off & air escapes. Would the sound of the chanter be affected? (cocobolo) I saw some where that a set of pipes (for sale) were done this way and the person looking at them thought that might indicate a tuneing problem.
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meir
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james, i am so glad you mention that. i have struggled with that for months. i now understand the issue. at least in my case.
i am only slowly learning to feel the holes. that is part of learning the pipes. some sets are easier than others. if you learn to handle a difficult set, you will be able to play anything.
the air escape is a learning phenomenon. it happens to me quite a bit. i think any honest piper who has less than 2 years under their belt would admit that this is a problem we all face. it will get better with time. it is most obvious in the second octave, when you attempt to play f or g and then close the chanter. likewise the second octave g-f-e tight triplet- you want to set it up by closing the chanter on the note prior, which is often an e or an f.
listen to beginners during your next grour session. you will see that when we attempt slow airs, we often sound better because we have time to close the chanter. few of us can play reels at any speed at all for the same reason.
when i am having leaking problems, i grip the chanter with too much pressure. this will hopefully improve with time.
too much pressure usually tranlates into tension in the bag. which means that i am not blowing notes as steady as an intermediate player. which means they will be out of tune.
meaning: the tuning is a dynamic thing- a learning issue as much as a chanter issue.
you may find a chanter easier to blow. but you may learn more from having to struggle with the one you have.
if what is true for me (all the above) is true for you, i would not touch the chanter for a year. i, in fact, would not touch it ever since my maker is available. who made yours?
one last point. they tell you to fine tune the chanter with tape. i was doing so for months. the taping was correct, and advanced players said that the tape tuned the chanter well. however, i was developing "lazy fingers" because of the tape, and not learning to seal holes correctly. so i abandoned all taping, at least for the next 6-8 months. i concluded that learning pipes is about learning to close the chanter. it takes time for some of us.
hope some of this helps. of course, i do not know if you are a beginner. if you are not, i am way off. david power, lorenzo, patrick, what do you think?
meir
i am only slowly learning to feel the holes. that is part of learning the pipes. some sets are easier than others. if you learn to handle a difficult set, you will be able to play anything.
the air escape is a learning phenomenon. it happens to me quite a bit. i think any honest piper who has less than 2 years under their belt would admit that this is a problem we all face. it will get better with time. it is most obvious in the second octave, when you attempt to play f or g and then close the chanter. likewise the second octave g-f-e tight triplet- you want to set it up by closing the chanter on the note prior, which is often an e or an f.
listen to beginners during your next grour session. you will see that when we attempt slow airs, we often sound better because we have time to close the chanter. few of us can play reels at any speed at all for the same reason.
when i am having leaking problems, i grip the chanter with too much pressure. this will hopefully improve with time.
too much pressure usually tranlates into tension in the bag. which means that i am not blowing notes as steady as an intermediate player. which means they will be out of tune.
meaning: the tuning is a dynamic thing- a learning issue as much as a chanter issue.
you may find a chanter easier to blow. but you may learn more from having to struggle with the one you have.
if what is true for me (all the above) is true for you, i would not touch the chanter for a year. i, in fact, would not touch it ever since my maker is available. who made yours?
one last point. they tell you to fine tune the chanter with tape. i was doing so for months. the taping was correct, and advanced players said that the tape tuned the chanter well. however, i was developing "lazy fingers" because of the tape, and not learning to seal holes correctly. so i abandoned all taping, at least for the next 6-8 months. i concluded that learning pipes is about learning to close the chanter. it takes time for some of us.
hope some of this helps. of course, i do not know if you are a beginner. if you are not, i am way off. david power, lorenzo, patrick, what do you think?
meir
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meir
- Posts: 212
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to continue to answer james...
sorry, did not answer all your questions.
the back d will sharpen if you push the reed further in, as will all the notes, particularly the left hand. if they sharpen too much, once you are advanced and know how to close the chanter, thats where taping comes in. but i am not at that level, and may not be either. yet, anyway.
i did not mean to imply that the chanter you are looking at has no tuning problem. it well may. but that can only be determined by reeding it correctly and then having an experienced player (the reed maker for example) check it out.
yes, moving the bridle will affect tuning. it may also affect many other things. and some reeds are not made to have bridle position moved. some are. again, this is for an experienced player to determine.
the most important thing- there is nothing better for your playing than a relationship with an expert maker, which can only be the case if you buy pipes made by a known contemporary maker. if you buy vintage pipes, say goodbye to them and send them to a maker willing to work on them. many contemporary makers, as well as people who consider themselves reed makers, are able and willing to work on vintage pipes.
meir
the back d will sharpen if you push the reed further in, as will all the notes, particularly the left hand. if they sharpen too much, once you are advanced and know how to close the chanter, thats where taping comes in. but i am not at that level, and may not be either. yet, anyway.
i did not mean to imply that the chanter you are looking at has no tuning problem. it well may. but that can only be determined by reeding it correctly and then having an experienced player (the reed maker for example) check it out.
yes, moving the bridle will affect tuning. it may also affect many other things. and some reeds are not made to have bridle position moved. some are. again, this is for an experienced player to determine.
the most important thing- there is nothing better for your playing than a relationship with an expert maker, which can only be the case if you buy pipes made by a known contemporary maker. if you buy vintage pipes, say goodbye to them and send them to a maker willing to work on them. many contemporary makers, as well as people who consider themselves reed makers, are able and willing to work on vintage pipes.
meir
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Islandpiper
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James, as a GHBer you must have a relationship of some sort with your practice chanter, and if you can play that and feel those little 2-3 millameter holes then you shouldn't be having such problems feeling the holes in your UP chanter. Yes, I know they are in different places, hold the two side by side and look! But, if you make your low hand stretch a bit more you'll be in the right spots. Try this, before practice on your UPs wash your hands in nice hot water. Spend a few minutes at this and THEN hold your chanter. If you work with your hands, like a bricklayer, this will help you feel things better.
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James Connelly
- Posts: 46
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My chanter
yes, I am a very new piper. My one tune is one half of "Maggy in the Forest." My chanter is not known by any one but me (William Smith) and it's either a very good chanter or a very bad one. I don't know enough to know the difference. B.C.Childress put in a new reed & I don't know any thing about hard "D" or problems changeing octives. My chanter works fine. I play by myself, I was just wondering if I did get to play with some one else, how much could I change my pipes (practice set) to be in tune with them. And your right about the GHB's, I can & do sometime play them in the dark, no problem. I have some time played them in the cold & couldn't feel my fingers, they were so cold.
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billh
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Hi James:
Good luck with the pipes. I have a couple of comments; I agree that sealing the fingerholes is mostly a matter of time and familiarity. You'll also need to get to know the 'right' level of playing pressure, which depends on reed and chanter - very slightly closing or opening the reed via the bridle will affect tuning and ease of play. More closed == sharper, more open == flatter. Too open and you'll get a hard-to-play reed and/or a "blatt blatt" sound, too closed and you'll get a feeble wheeze. Bruce plays a pretty hard reed unless he's changed his stripes, so you may want a second opinion on this from a couple of experienced players. Personally I'd start a beginner on an easier reed. So the best bridle position is likely to be determined more by playing characteristics/response than pitch alone.
I would _definitely_ avoid altering the toneholes in any way, including sanding them; thinning the chanter wall in the area of a tonehole will change the tuning, and is similar in effect to making the hole larger. In general, doing any irreversible modifications to a pipe chanter someone else has made is a bad idea - even for an expert. The only reasonable exception IMO might be alterations to a chanter that is known to be rubbish - and even then you are on shaky ground. One may well justify re-boring a Pakistani mass-produced chanter, but a lot of lovely historic chanters were destroyed over the years through a combination of ignorance of the proper way to reed them and a change in UP fashion regarding pitch, tone, and loudness. Certainly the maker should have the option to 'make right' any problems first.
If you feel a need for training wheels of some sort, I've heard of paper "hole reinforcements" (of the type available from office supply stores, for 3-ring binders) being used to help feel the toneholes. There's a risk of damaging the finish so you'd want to test the glue first, and weigh the risks.
best regards,
Bill
Good luck with the pipes. I have a couple of comments; I agree that sealing the fingerholes is mostly a matter of time and familiarity. You'll also need to get to know the 'right' level of playing pressure, which depends on reed and chanter - very slightly closing or opening the reed via the bridle will affect tuning and ease of play. More closed == sharper, more open == flatter. Too open and you'll get a hard-to-play reed and/or a "blatt blatt" sound, too closed and you'll get a feeble wheeze. Bruce plays a pretty hard reed unless he's changed his stripes, so you may want a second opinion on this from a couple of experienced players. Personally I'd start a beginner on an easier reed. So the best bridle position is likely to be determined more by playing characteristics/response than pitch alone.
I would _definitely_ avoid altering the toneholes in any way, including sanding them; thinning the chanter wall in the area of a tonehole will change the tuning, and is similar in effect to making the hole larger. In general, doing any irreversible modifications to a pipe chanter someone else has made is a bad idea - even for an expert. The only reasonable exception IMO might be alterations to a chanter that is known to be rubbish - and even then you are on shaky ground. One may well justify re-boring a Pakistani mass-produced chanter, but a lot of lovely historic chanters were destroyed over the years through a combination of ignorance of the proper way to reed them and a change in UP fashion regarding pitch, tone, and loudness. Certainly the maker should have the option to 'make right' any problems first.
If you feel a need for training wheels of some sort, I've heard of paper "hole reinforcements" (of the type available from office supply stores, for 3-ring binders) being used to help feel the toneholes. There's a risk of damaging the finish so you'd want to test the glue first, and weigh the risks.
best regards,
Bill