f on the tenor flat

[Christian Tietje]

Dear all,
does anybody know how to lift the f on the tenor reg? On both sets the f is flat. On the concert set it is nearly low as f natural. On the b-set a bit flat, not too bad, but not good. I've tried cork or wax at the bottom, above the hole, bridle shifting. Bothing really lifts the note.

[geoff wooff]

Christian,
have you tried changing the 'stopped length' of the air column ? If you have tried to shorten this by fitting a cork to the tuning pin to block the bore and make it shorter and it did not work , you could try making the bore longer. This can sometimes change the tuning of some notes which can make it easier to bring the whole scale to where you want it.

Another idea; if you have minimised any 'rushing' or wires with wax to bring down the pitch of notes further up the bore and still find your F's ( F#'s actually) too flat..; then try making the F# hole smaller... this will raise the pitch of that note ,sometimes quite considerably.

Of course, similar action , of changing the note hole sizes with tape or wax, can be used on the other notes in an attempt to minimise the amount of 'rush' in the bore which may help overcome the flat F# problem.

You could also try a reed with a different staple diameter; smaller diameter will raise the overall pitch of the scale and larger diameter will lower the pitches.... all is relative and your results may differ.

Good luck.

[Sam L]

Are you sure that the F# isn't collapsing under pressure? What happens if you ease off? If that helps, then you need a stiffer reed or to open or clip the existing reed. As Geoff says, if you raise the pitch of every note, then flatten everything except the F# that will help. It is an annoyance, as it would be better for this last note to be sharp as it can be flattened without unduly affecting the others.

I find that the A on the tenor definitely raises in pitch with a smaller hole. I haven't noticed it on the F# on my design, but I'm sure it happens.

[boyd]

Is it just my stupid brain....I have always reduced hole size (via tape or wax) to flatten individual notes.

Here you are saying it will raise the pitch?

[Sam L]

Yep, there are anomalies on the regs. F# on the Bari sometimes, more often (invariably in fact) for me A on the tenor.

[Sam L]

To be clear, only referring to hole size. Wax in the bore always flattens, but as Geoff says changing the volume of the chamber below the F# can affect stuff, mainly the F#, I think. I don't do this, but look at Cillian's regs, they have a moveable plunger. It works alright!

[geoff wooff]

Is it just my stupid brain....I have always reduced hole size (via tape or wax) to flatten individual notes.

Here you are saying it will raise the pitch?

Some note holes respond to being made smaller by raising the note pitch and F# can be one of them both on a chanter and a regulator .. "can" not "does".... whilst changing the size of holes they can also be moved, but that is more in the domain of the pipemaker and during the developement stages.



Lengths of stopped pipes need to be focussed... it is akin to moving the bridge on a fiddle, in some ways. Once a workable length has been found it is normally sufficient to retain that dimension in all future editions of the part.

When an obvious, or logical, cure for a problem does not result in a fix , try the opposite. time and time again this has worked for me.

Of course, if these cures do not produce a satisfactory result then the Pipemaker needs to be consulted, as one would imagine that the sets should have been 'in tune' when new!

[jpiper]

Hi Tietje,my name is jay and im new here and have read all the replies to your tennor regultors problem with f# bieng flat.it seems as though youve havent been able to fix it? If im wrong sorry,but it seems to be a reed slash tone hole problem.if the reeds lips (tip) arent strong enough or have been sanded too much then this can flatten the top note (ie:like a chanters back "d" note)
Ive been making (just word of mouth friends and friends of friends ect) repairing quietly and playing pipes for 16yrs.
My humble advise after reading the replies is this......you may need to send your tennor reg to its maker for a new reed,and this shouldnt cost you unless you have altered the reed in some way or modified the actual regulator.
If the pipemaker wants to charge you then its up to you to pay for it or even another pipemaker could fix it.
The last resort (and im not saying you have to do this is take the key off and measure the tone holes inside diameter (or size) and get a drill bit that is only .5mm larger and drill the hole carefully,if it needs more then go another .5mm larger u till you get it in tune.regulators arent like chanters because it has stopped end with a tuning rod and doesnt need the second octave ,so there easier to fix.....all the best Jay

[PCL]

Whoa! Never ever make any permanent alteration to your pipes. Send them back to the maker; or an expert, if the maker is no longer with us; or leave them absolutely alone. So many sets have been ruined by suffering alterations made by those who did not know what they were doing because they did not know how the pipes in hand worked in the first place. (BTW, I am assuming that the flatness of the F# you refer to is flat of Just Intonation, which is noticeably flat of Equal Temperament, anyway.)

[Christian Tietje]

sackcloth and ashes! I'm such a silly fool. It seems that I (myself!) had filled some wax at the top edge of the hole to flatten the f down to test Just Intonation. It was very very flat. Flatter than Just Intonation, nearly f nat. I might have forgot it and found it today with the intention to test the recommendations above. Sorry for my question. Never come back again ...

[billh]

sackcloth and ashes! I'm such a silly fool. It seems that I (myself!) had filled some wax at the top edge of the hole to flatten the f down to test Just Intonation. It was very very flat. Flatter than Just Intonation, nearly f nat. I might have forgot it and found it today with the intention to test the recommendations above. Sorry for my question. Never come back again ...

Glad it's sorted!

Geoff and Sam are of course right; while enlarging a regulator hole can sometimes raise the pitch, it can also flatten it in some situations. The tenor A and baritone F# are particularly susceptible to this, and there are few regulator encounters more tragic than seeing an F# hole that has been enlarged more and more desperately in an attempt to sharpen it!

- B

[Christian Tietje]

... and at my flat set, which f on the tenor was also a bit flat I have placed a small piece of cork below the hole on the rush wire which raised the tone to a wonderful Just Intonation. No hole drilling or enlarging.