Fingering

[bcullen]

Hi First thank you to Ben and others who have got me back online after a frustrating period of password problems.

I have very large hands and find using the top fleshy part of the left hand fingers the only way I can get
an air tight note. I have tried the recommended method and fail, one reason is to balance the fingers the back D is played with the side of the thumb and another my 3rd finger has a natural sit right on the joint. I read on an early post that the method I use was
prevalent in the 20s/30s Is the reason for the change speed? Any comments
Thanks Bryan

[benhall.1]

You're welcome, Bryan. And good to see you back.

Now over to the pipers to actually have a chance of answering your question.

[benoit trémolières]

To me, the only reason of using the second phalanx is that it gives a wider spanning.
When you bend the fingers, the fingertips come closer to each other.

So, the answer is in your question: with large hands, especially on concert-pitch, you can do it the other way.

Just to know: what if you try to play on a B flat chanter?
Does it works the same?

[PJ]

If you're starting out, it's only natural that you will have trouble getting a proper seal on the tone holes. Keep trying. Using the tops of your fingers might help get a better seal but you'll find that it limits your development.

For my year or so, I played with the tops of the fingers of my left hand. At that point, I found that I had difficulty with some of the important ornaments, namely triplets and rolls. Also, bending/sliding notes was not easy. It took me about a month to get used to the more accepted grip.

By the way, it's OK if you are covering the back D with your thumb at an angle. I'd say my thumb is at a 45 degree angle to the hole when I play and that enough to get a proper seal.

There is some evidence from paintings and other sources that some 18th and 19th century pipers (Paddy Conneely?) held the chanter with the tips of their fingers. But I don't know if it was the norm or why that grip fell into disfavour.

[Driftwood]

I looked at the O'Farrell tutor after it was mentioned in the NPU "Forensic Pipemaker" video. He says that the top hand fingertips are used but the middle joints are used on the lower hand. What does seem challenging to me is the open-style fingering shown (which I associate with legato playing). O'Farrell says that staccato notes are achieved by lowering all the raised fingers "as one". I don't think I could do that except for the odd note or two. There's no mention of closed fingering as far as I can see.

[bcullen]

Thanks:
I have been playing for almost 2 years and making steady progress.So i will continue with my fingering
Then I can have some success. Then slowly try to adjust my action. I am still not sure why it changed and it
must have taken a concerted effort to arrive at the present style. Maybe an early piper lost a couple of finger tips on the left hand
Now there's a drastic remedy

Bryan

[boyd]

I suggest you get someone to take a couple of pix of your hands holding your chanter and post them here.
That will assist advice and common understanding of the issue.
Boyd

[PJ]

How do other pipers hold the chanter? GHB, SSP etc.

[bcullen]

OK I managed an avatar so now for the pic
Bryan

[bcullen]

Thanks Boyd looking at the Video his first digit left hand is curled
around the the first hole I may be trying to hard to have straight fingers
Where i have the biggest problem is the 3rd finger.
Here's a tip i am using. Lick the fingers (yum yum) and i can feel the
holes and where the fingers sit. Looks bad if I have to lick fingers halfway
through a tune. Might try axle grease
Bryan

"ideas that don't work are better than none at all"

[tommykleen]

As for the finger licking, from a health perspective, over time you may end up with an enhanced immune system from it. But in the short term, you might as well go around licking public door knobs. You are self vectoring if you pursue this habit.

I know a few of today's greatest pipers who lick their fingers before playing, and I get that it immediately helps convey a temporary tactility. But it's a self-defeating habit in that it actually strips away oils in your skin...making it drier (spit is funny that way. It's actually the first stage in the digestion process: it's formulated to break things down). And then you have to lick more, and then they get drier, and you lick more...∞.

You'd be better off, at least in dry winter times, to use some sort of lanolin-based product on your digits. Me? I've used bagbalm for years. Gets me through a Siberian-like winter every time.

[bcullen]

This is my version of correct fingering. I can only download one pic ata time so the next post is
the fingering i prefer
Bryan

[bcullen]

This is my fingering I am working on orthodox (painful)

Bryan

[Mr.Gumby]

It is perhaps worth persevering with the 'correct' fingering. You may want to experiment with your posture and playing position or the position of the bag to get a the chanter is a possibly more comfortable angle in order to make the finger positions more comfortable.

Movement of your top hand index finger in the position in the second photo will be highly inefficient compared to the straight finger. It will at best slow you down and possibly open you up to excess strain in the long run.

[boyd]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=uille ... GOMw70M%3A

look at the (many) pictures here and it is evident that there is quite a lot of subtle variation in hand/wrist placement player to player.

Boyd