Insights on the quick bounce when playing notes

[MattMads]

So...I have a Daye chanter and for some reason ( I accept it is most likey me) but I am unable to get the quick bouce/chirp on notes. I am talking bout the a, g, and f# and A, G and F# notes mostly. I'm not talking about vibrato or cut, but that quick trill/ bunce thing that happens when covering the holes on the chanter. I hear players do it all the time and I have been un able to do it myself. I have to physically bounce my finger on the chanter qickly to get the sound I am looking for.It takes time and is very difficult to do on demand. I don't think that is how it is done. I am wondering if this sound is more easily produced on chanters that have some cut away from the holes? On the Daye chanter the holes are cut straight though the composit materials. Does anyone have a chanter with straight cut holes and can achieve this ornamentation? If so how do you do it. What kind of drills/ practice concepts did you do the develop this ornamentation? The idea for me is to create this ornamentaiton on demand when I want it. Any insight would be helpful. Does this ornamentation have a name?
Cheers
Matt

[rorybbellows]

I think what your talking about is grace notes , have a look at this section on different techniques used with Uilleann pipes

http://www.uilleannobsession.com/faq.html

RORY

[oliver]

It's all in the fingers ! Takes time and practice, but after a while, you can't play without doing it !

[Mr.Gumby]

you can't play without doing it !

Which is probably also not where you want to be.

[geoff wooff]

Perhaps you need to explain ,err... differently MattMads ?

The way I read your post it is as if you find difficulty raising and lowering your fingers quickly ( neatly, snappily, bouncing) ?

I've met some people who have difficulty with quick-light finger movements... and when they start on the pipes they grip too hard and the speed ,and style, of muscular movement reversal is too forced.

A delicate downward pressure of the fingers... hardly more than the weight of the digits is all that is needed to seal the chanter.

Or perhaps you are refering to Tight Triplets A-G- F# or F#-G-A ?

If you have been a piper of a different type( or a musician as such) then ignore this but if you have spent your working life as a Bricklayer or Gardener then some muscular re-training might be called for.

[oliver]

you can't play without doing it !

Which is probably also not where you want to be.

Absolutely ! You've to be able to choose when, as for everything.

[Mr.Gumby]

I said that having had to un-learn a highly irritating bounce on the A. It's effective sometimes but having it all the time really gets on your nerves. Not even sure I am rid of it completely.

[oliver]

I said that having had to un-learn a highly irritating bounce on the A. It's effective sometimes but having it all the time really gets on your nerves. Not even sure I am rid of it completely.

I've been going through that as well... just trying not to do what took you so long to do !

[pancelticpiper]

There are a number of different things the OP could be referring to, due to the non-standard words used.

Could be a "cut" (upper gracenote), could be an upper mordent (pralltriller).

Cuts and pralltrillers are quite different things, though.

[tommykleen]

You are probably over-thinking it and over-tensing your fingers. Early players frequently over-grip the chanter. This leads to the fingers forming into a rigid arc, whereas what you want is the tension and control in the joint/tissue closer to the hand. It's easier to bounce fingers when they are not all tensed up. This has been my experience anyway...

I am assuming we are talking about things like M. Gumby's bounce on A, which a good many players routinely display in that first full measure of The Gold Ring:

B~AG A2d (~ =bounce on A)

[Mr.Gumby]

I have it (or something) heard referred to , and taught as, a bounce. But then maybe that's what makes me think of one particular thing which may or may not be what the OP is thinking of.

Tommykleen's example above I would sooner think of as a gracenote although it's not really different, apart perhaps from the timing, from 'a bounce', which would occur when approaching the note from a higher note. But, as non standardised terminology goes, YMMV.

[tommykleen]

I have it (or something) heard referred to , and taught as, a bounce. But then maybe that's what makes me think of one particular thing which may or may not be what the OP is thinking of.

Tommykleen's example above I would sooner think of as a gracenote although it's not really different, apart perhaps from the timing, from 'a bounce', which would occur when approaching the note from a higher note. But, as non standardised terminology goes, YMMV.

In this case the ~ is a double strike. Does that make it a double cut or double grace?

[Mr.Gumby]

This could be getting fierce technical

I'd probably go {AB} A2. Are you going {ABAB} A2?

And, while we are heading that way, perhaps, has anyone else noticed the Touhey/Tom Ennis era trill on, for example, the A is coming back in vogue?

[tommykleen]

Oh, I ain't no good at no ABC. But I hear B A-B-A-B-A G...

So maybe it's an A trill

[Mr.Gumby]

Sorry, brainfart. Let's go back, I read it wrong and was thinking of the long A2 not of the B~AG. A case of going off on a train of thought before reading properly. That, and posting here while doing something else at the same time.


Coming from the higher note, that's a bounce. Not sure I'd place it there but definitely a bounce of the type I was thinking of.