Maybe I should split these up, but I'm hoping people in this forum might have experience with SSP as well...
I'm thinking of trying out pipes of some sort, and I'm torn between UP and SSP. Part of me loves the sound of a full set of UP and thinks the SSP might be a bit too limiting in terms of range; another says I have a flute for Irish music, and SSP could satisfy my urge to learn more Scottish music on a more "traditional" instrument (yes, I know the history, but it still feels more trad than a flute in a Scottish context). Regardless, I've begun to look at makers, and I've found a few that come back frequently.
What I'm looking for is a relatively inexpensive set of one of those. I say relatively because I know I'll need to be spending close to $1000 or more, especially for a good set of UP. I just don't want to spend more than I need to as a beginner.
For UP, Sky and Dayes both seem to be reputable makers for decent but inexpensive practice sets. But I don't want to get something I'll want/need to upgrade soon after starting. I've heard some people mention getting the nicest chanter you can and spend less on the bag and bellows; would this be the way to go? Is there a better mid-range option that would be easy to add drones, etc. to later? I'm in the Triangle area of NC, so Pat Sky seems like a good local option (just a few more hours away).
For SSP, John Walsh's A-2000 or Retro pipes seem to be good value for money (but not his shuttle pipes). Is the only difference 3 drones vs 2? I've watched some youtube videos and this seems to be the main difference I can hear. I've seen Duncan Souter, Gibson Ceilidh and Fireside, and McCallum in the under $1000 price range; all seem to have good reputations.
I live in NC, home (parents and family) is in MA, and I go to Ireland at least once a year (hoping to get to Scotland soon as well). Am I going to have a lot of problems with climate and reeds? The Walsh and other poly pipes intrigue me in this regard, with everything being plastic. My delrin flute is great for travel, and I don't think the tone is too far off (for the price, it's not an Olwell or Hamilton). But what about in UP world, where plastic reeds are a non-starter apparently? Are there UP/reed makers that are more stable across different climates?
Anyway, there are other decisions I have to make about what I'm doing, but I'd like to know what you think. I'm going to try to find some people in the area with both types of pipes to try them out, and figure out what's out there for lessons and such.
Beginning UP and SSP sets
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pancelticpiper
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Re: Beginning UP and SSP sets
I've played both Scottish pipes and the uilleann pipes for many years, and to me the thing is that each instrument is perfectly suited to a completely different style of music and style of playing.
The Scottish Highland pipe repertoire is wonderful, and of course only sounds as good as it can when played on Scottish pipes. So much of the way the tunes sound and are played are built into the way the Scottish chanter works, the fingering, and the playing style. Yes I've heard uilleann pipers tackle a few Scottish pipe tunes but they come out so different as to be a mere analogy of the original (think of the movie version of one of your favourite books).
It's the same the other way round. The sound of the wonderful traditional core uilleann repertoire just doesn't have the same effect on any other instrument, not on Scottish pipes, and not on the other Irish woodwinds (whistle and flute). It only has the full spectrum of stylistic nuance on the uilleann pipes, because no other instrument can do all the things an uilleann chanter can do. There's a current fad in the Highland pipe world of playing uilleann tunes and these just never work for me, being so compressed and distorted as to scarcely be recognizable. But the Highland pipers who have never heard the original think these "arrangements" are grand. (Like the people who haven't read the book, who rave about how great the movie is.)
So it's apples and oranges, two completely different musical traditions. I've had students show up who say they want to learn the pipes, but don't know which one, and I tell them to go listen to hundreds of examples of each type of music and then fully commit themselves to learning one. Once they've become solid players on one of the types of pipe, after a few years, then it might be time to consider taking up the other. Just don't try to learn both types at the same time, which usually leads nowhere, from what I've seen.
Yes for SSP the Walsh "Scottish Smallpipe in A" is hard to beat. I toured with one, playing in heat and cold and dry and rain and the thing is always in tune, always works. Mine was mouthblown.
Yes the Daye "pennychanter" also always seems to work dependably even in our challenging California weather (which ruins many reeds bought here from Ireland, or even other parts of the USA). But don't skimp on the bag, bellows, stocks, and connector! These should be high quality, because the best chanter in the world isn't any good if air isn't going to it. Since the Daye sets beginners have brought to me have had chanters which play great, but the other stuff barely working, I always tell people to get the chanter from Daye but the other stuff elsewhere. The disclaimer or caveat is that I don't know if Daye has upgraded his bags bellows etc. The ones I saw were unacceptable.
The Scottish Highland pipe repertoire is wonderful, and of course only sounds as good as it can when played on Scottish pipes. So much of the way the tunes sound and are played are built into the way the Scottish chanter works, the fingering, and the playing style. Yes I've heard uilleann pipers tackle a few Scottish pipe tunes but they come out so different as to be a mere analogy of the original (think of the movie version of one of your favourite books).
It's the same the other way round. The sound of the wonderful traditional core uilleann repertoire just doesn't have the same effect on any other instrument, not on Scottish pipes, and not on the other Irish woodwinds (whistle and flute). It only has the full spectrum of stylistic nuance on the uilleann pipes, because no other instrument can do all the things an uilleann chanter can do. There's a current fad in the Highland pipe world of playing uilleann tunes and these just never work for me, being so compressed and distorted as to scarcely be recognizable. But the Highland pipers who have never heard the original think these "arrangements" are grand. (Like the people who haven't read the book, who rave about how great the movie is.)
So it's apples and oranges, two completely different musical traditions. I've had students show up who say they want to learn the pipes, but don't know which one, and I tell them to go listen to hundreds of examples of each type of music and then fully commit themselves to learning one. Once they've become solid players on one of the types of pipe, after a few years, then it might be time to consider taking up the other. Just don't try to learn both types at the same time, which usually leads nowhere, from what I've seen.
Yes for SSP the Walsh "Scottish Smallpipe in A" is hard to beat. I toured with one, playing in heat and cold and dry and rain and the thing is always in tune, always works. Mine was mouthblown.
Yes the Daye "pennychanter" also always seems to work dependably even in our challenging California weather (which ruins many reeds bought here from Ireland, or even other parts of the USA). But don't skimp on the bag, bellows, stocks, and connector! These should be high quality, because the best chanter in the world isn't any good if air isn't going to it. Since the Daye sets beginners have brought to me have had chanters which play great, but the other stuff barely working, I always tell people to get the chanter from Daye but the other stuff elsewhere. The disclaimer or caveat is that I don't know if Daye has upgraded his bags bellows etc. The ones I saw were unacceptable.
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
Re: Beginning UP and SSP sets
Quick show of hands. Has anyone here said something similar and not regretted just getting a decent instrument to start with?bigsciota wrote:I just don't want to spend more than I need to as a beginner.
*puts hand up*
As for serious advice, I'd suggest getting a (GHB) practice chanter and taking some lessons and going from there. A decent PC is cheap and the other $950 will buy you plenty lessons.
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Ceann Cromtha
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Re: Beginning UP and SSP sets
To quote the great Uillmann:Calum wrote:Quick show of hands. Has anyone here said something similar and not regretted just getting a decent instrument to start with?bigsciota wrote:I just don't want to spend more than I need to as a beginner.
*puts hand up*
As for serious advice, I'd suggest getting a (GHB) practice chanter and taking some lessons and going from there. A decent PC is cheap and the other $950 will buy you plenty lessons.
"Buy the very best instrument that you definitely cannot afford to buy."
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An Draighean
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Re: Beginning UP and SSP sets
As a contrasting opinion, I offer my own experience: I've wanted to play uilleann pipes ever since I first heard them in Ireland in 1975, but couldn't at that time find a set that I could afford. Back in the states, I waited until after raising all our children before I could finally afford and buy a nice set. But in hindsight, I sure wish I had persevered and located even a cheap-ish practice set way back then, just to think how much further along I might be if I had. The uilleann pipes are the most challenging instrument I have ever played (and I play a fair number). Believe me, you will want all the time and energy you can devote to them. So sure, buy the best you can afford, but don't put off buying a practice set if that's all you can afford.
Deartháir don phaidir an port.