A modern direction in pipeing

[dunnp]

I don't hear very many pipers trying to swing like Liam Walsh.

http://archive.org/details/LiamWalshTheSalamanca

I could listen to him all day.

[An Draighean]

... and the recordings are not some finished product, but just when he happened to be playing wherever. You make more mistakes when you're trying to do more off the cuff.

I agree completely, and probably should have made this distinction with regard to Seamus Ennis' recordings also. My favorite records of his are the ones made more extemporaneously. My comments about Ennis were not intended as criticism but rather as an opinion on what makes his music human and endearing.

[NicoMoreno]

It's fast, too. Faster than McGoldrick I think.

[PhilD]

I'm not a musical historian or anything... Looking back on this historical recording of Liam Walsh is interesting. However, who's to say that musicians of the past where not equally influenced by the musical world around them. Obviously they didn't have the internet like we do today, but this recording has a "swing" to it that was a very prevalent element to Ragtime, The Charleston, and Jazz, all of which were very popular in the 40 years leading up to this recording.

Maybe there were pipers back then also ruminating on the modern influences to piping.

Please educate me if i'm way off base with this. Very interesting discussion.

[Mr.Gumby]

Liam Walsh had a dance band, he played the sax. I don't think his approach to piping was influenced by that too much though.

[Jäger]

I'm not a musical historian or anything... Looking back on this historical recording of Liam Walsh is interesting. However, who's to say that musicians of the past where not equally influenced by the musical world around them. Obviously they didn't have the internet like we do today, but this recording has a "swing" to it that was a very prevalent element to Ragtime, The Charleston, and Jazz, all of which were very popular in the 40 years leading up to this recording.

Maybe there were pipers back then also ruminating on the modern influences to piping.

Please educate me if i'm way off base with this. Very interesting discussion.

Although I have nothing of tangible value to add to this, musicology student as I may be, I must say I find this to be a very intriguing idea! Perhaps even something to write a thesis on... A comparison of traditional music from different eras to the popular music of the same time. That might be really interesting to dig into!

[CHasR]

Although I have nothing of tangible value to add to this, musicology student as I may be,

IMHO you are eminently qualified to contribute valuable observations with such a background.

All music was once new music !

...can you imagine how bad the first UPiper to ever do cranns got slagged, back in his day ?

"...ye all be forwarned that faid piper "XXXX" from "x" in Co. "x", haf brought forth an devlish devyce, akin greatly to the braying of a birthing cow; and has fet unholy forcef in action upon ye greeat work of pipering...." etc...
(Im having a wee laff dont everyone get all bent about it. haha.)

[highland-piper]

Personally, I think the "new style" has been heavily influenced by the proliferation of judged contests and championships also. It's the nature of such things that to win, you need to do something faster, flashier, etc. than the last guy or the past year. And not make a single "mistake" - Seamus Ennis' records are full of squawks, squeaks and the occasional missed note but that is an integral part of the unique character and soul of his piping.

In Highland piping our world is dominated by competition. In GHB competition you won't win anything playing fast and round (even). So it's not the competition per se that causes the effect. In a competition system you get more of what the judges reward.

It would be interesting to interview Seamus Ennis and ask him if the squawks and squeaks were desirable.

[rorybbellows]

For me at least, I dont think that in the examples that it is just that they are played fast but there is a certain youthful exuberance in the playing. I dont think I would call it the player style as I've heard both Brian and Micheal play other tunes in a more "traditional" manner.Not in the same way that the travelling style is thought by many to be Johnny Dorans personal style and not a style that existed before he brought it to us.So the way that Brain and Micheal played the tunes is the way they chose to play the tunes and is not their personal style, which goes without saying takes great technical ability. So this would suggest an outside(non-personal) influence

Perhaps even something to write a thesis on.!

I think it would be a very interesting and worth while piece of work. Theres loads of food for thought and question regarding how ITM evolves.
Does it have any relationship to what is going on in society at that time? How does the fact that more young people are playing ITM then ever before affect things? Whats was the impact of the likes of riverdance and titanic on the whole ITM scene ? Does social economics have an influence ? What impact do gifted individual players have on certain instruments and so on.

RORY

[piperhahn]

I would like to point out (for what it's worth and I'm sure it's not much) Michael and Barry here are both origionally Flute players (and amazing ones at that) and they're also both left handed.. I like their style of playing and I think it has a wonderfull lift and pace to it, but a single tune from either does not properly represent the full extent of their skill and understanding. (as wonderful as that one piece may be) They both have an amazing and powerfull grasp of what it really means to fill out a musical experience. Additionally I have found both of them to be very kind and giving to musicians in the tradition as well. very gifted and excited to see their tradition continued.

But funny that they're both playing that amazing "backwards"

That's all.. like I said.. probably not worth much.

Dr. Eric

[NicoMoreno]

Willie Clancy was a flute player first as well, and was also left handed, but his style couldn't be more different. I don't think either things are really relevant to their (MM and BK) styles.

Choice or not, I've heard enough from Michael McGolderick (and Barry Kerr) to think that this *is* fairly representative of his personal style, or at least the style he chooses to play in most of the time. As Eric says, I'm sure they're very kind, and generous, and it's obvious that they have musical skill and experience. I don't think this discussion needs to be about what is better (but of course everyone is more than welcome to have a preference!) but just what is different. And clarifying that it's not all "young" or "contemporary" pipers who play like this!