Importance of the staple VS the reed head

[ausdag]

HI all,

I, together with my friend, have been able to produce a reed which can be played successfully in three different pitched chanters by different makers. See here -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X78OBaCl ... re=channel

I was initially concerned that as the reed was placed in successively longer chanters that the pitch would not progressively drop to the required pitch. Ie, the C# chanter would be 'at pitch' but going down to C and B would produce slightly sharper results. However,
All three chanters play in tune, ie, The C# chanter plays at C#, the C chanter plays at C and the B chanter plays at B according to the BOSS Tuner. In other words, as the chanter gets longer, no matter that the reed dimensions stay the same, the pitch continues to drop fully according to the length of the chanter. It may safely be presumed that the reed in a Bb chanter would also play successfully at Bb on the tuner.

Even more interesting is that the same success is produced using varying head widths from 10.2mm up to 12mm. The only thing the width seems to affect is the tone and the playing pressure.

This suggests to me that much of what is important in the success of a 'universal reed' is mostly in the staple.

I'm not suggesting that we have the perfect universal reed as yet, but it seems pretty close. Not that that may be anything special necessarily. Interesting all the same.

Stay 'tuned'.

[PJ]

The reed with C# and C chanters certainly sound well in tune but I'm not certain about the combination of the same reed and the B chanter.

Apart from tuning, how is the tone of the reed in the different chanters? I've swapped reeds around before (admittedly in concert pitch chanters) and while I could get a reed to play in tune in both chanters, there was a distinct difference in tone - one being much brighter and more responsive than the other. Do you notice any tonal differences when you change the reed from one chanter to another?

[ausdag]

Hi PJ,

Yes, but only as would be expected..given that the chanters are by three different makers and thus more likely to have a wider variance in bore dimensions than if the chanters were all Kenna or all Coyne. Three different timbers too. Tasmanian native olive does tend to give a warmer/duller/more subdued (whatever you might call it) tone compared to the Rosewood.

Admittedly the B is a little less convincing mainly due to the fact that I simply could not get a good seal on the tone holes that day, much to my chagrin. It worked fine the day prior, but you know how it is once you press that 'record' button

Interestingly, made another reed just last weekend with a brighter tone on all three chanters and a nice Hard E on the B chanter.

[stew]

Hi ausdag, the reed sounds good in all three chanters, the B was still there as well, so is the reed dimension just as for a standard C chanter reed, or is the staple bore a little larger than 3.2mm? made from copper? or is it just made from a good piece of cane! are you going to let us in to your secret? all the best.

[Brazenkane]

I'm not so sure I understand the reason why there is a need for a "universal reed?" My experience leads me to believe that, save your example with both flat sticks pitched so near to each other, it's not feasible. Really though, I'm not trying to argue the point of feasibility. Personally, if I had three instruments, I would make 1 reed for each.

I also don't believe that the staple takes precedence in relation to the head. I might suggest to try removing the head off a working reed. Now tell me how well The reed sounds? In other words, the two are inextricably connected... one cannot operate without the other, and there are specific elements controlled by the staple, and others controlled by the head. The two operate together, and with any luck... the relationship is symbiotic.

[ausdag]

Hi ausdag, the reed sounds good in all three chanters, the B was still there as well, so is the reed dimension just as for a standard C chanter reed, or is the staple bore a little larger than 3.2mm? made from copper? or is it just made from a good piece of cane! are you going to let us in to your secret? all the best.

Thanks Stew....is it a standard C chanter reed?...honestly, I'm not really sure. It's just a recipe we've both come up with which worked well in one pitch and we found it worked well the others as well...Brass hand-rolled staple. Cane varies in quality. That particular reed in the video was Sampson cane I think but I've used harder local cane as well. It (the video reed) also split in three places during manufacture so it contains a good quantity of super glue .

I want to do a bit more testing on a few foibles first before I release any more specific data...stay tuned

[ausdag]

I'm not so sure I understand the reason why there is a need for a "universal reed?" My experience leads me to believe that, save your example with both flat sticks pitched so near to each other, it's not feasible. Really though, I'm not trying to argue the point of feasibility. Personally, if I had three instruments, I would make 1 reed for each.

Well, those with more than one pitch of chanter need only make up one rolling mandrel and one flattening mandrel. One only has to worry about one set of dimensions. Of course if you had three instruments you would make three reeds. But you would only need to use one set of dimensions and tools. My evidence suggests it is entirely feasible. B and C# are pitched far enough away that many still consider they require different sets of dimensions to reed both pitches of chanter successfully. Malcolm and I don't seem to have that problem.

I also don't believe that the staple takes precedence in relation to the head. I might suggest to try removing the head off a working reed. Now tell me how well The reed sounds? In other words, the two are inextricably connected... one cannot operate without the other, and there are specific elements controlled by the staple, and others controlled by the head. The two operate together, and with any luck... the relationship is symbiotic.

I said -

This suggests to me that much of what is important in the success of a 'universal reed' is mostly in the staple.

Sorry, but you have completely missed my point. I can make a successful reed that will play in all three chanters as per the video, but with different width heads (same length of head and roughly same length of scrape). Doing the same with the staple is not possible. Point being - the head dimensions are less critical than the staple dimensions.

[nemethmik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X78OBaClo4A

The only thing I, making my own reeds, can say is "wow".
In May this year I was in Dublin NPU Tionol and an excellent pipemaker showed me a reed that worked in all his chanters D, C#, C, B. The Rogge workshop, for example, uses only two types of reeds: one for D chanters and one for the others. It's quite common that a good reed made for a flat pitch chanter can be used interchangeably in any other flat pitch chanters.
Miki

[Hans-Joerg]

Miki,
I suppose but that that was a D flat (also referred to as narrow bore) chanter?

[Brazenkane]

Dave,

Sorry, I obviously missed your point.

Thanks for clearly explaining.

cheers

[ausdag]

Dave,

Sorry, I obviously missed your point.

Thanks for clearly explaining.

cheers

No worries my friend

[ausdag]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X78OBaClo4A

The only thing I, making my own reeds, can say is "wow".
In May this year I was in Dublin NPU Tionol and an excellent pipemaker showed me a reed that worked in all his chanters D, C#, C, B. The Rogge workshop, for example, uses only two types of reeds: one for D chanters and one for the others. It's quite common that a good reed made for a flat pitch chanter can be used interchangeably in any other flat pitch chanters.
Miki

Interesting stuff, Nemethmik. Thanks for the input.