Getting a reed to sound

[amanderthad]

I did a dumb thing. Despite my knowing better, I bid on and and won a set of Pakistani Biniou Kozh Bagpipes. What a disaster, I'm looking at the workmanship on the finger holes and thinking to myself that there is no way this thing going to be in tune with itself. Which might not be so big a problem seeing as how I can't get a note out of the bleedin thing. I believe it is probably the reeds as I can't even get a squeek when I suck air through them. What are the common ways to futz with a chanter reed to get it to sound when it is not making a prittle or a prattle. Once I get the chanter reed figured out I might also need help figuring out what to do with the drone reed which has also taken a vow of silence.

Thanks

Matt

[Tony]

I suggest you call a few pipemakers and see if someone is willing to take-on the task of re-reeding and working with the pipes as best as possible without doing a total rework (like Tim Britton has been doing) This way, the odds are in favor and the frustration level (on your part) is minimized.

[marcpipes]

This is more an area where highland pipe experience comes in handy. This is a read you can mouth blow to test. If you could get a crow from it by inhaling you're probably strong enough to suck up all the air in the room. Just stick it in your mouth with your lips at the winding and blow. It should be a fair bit easier than a highland pipe reed. If it still won't sound, grip the blades at the winding and GENTLY squeeze them in a bit. This will weaken it slightly. If it's still too strong sand or scrape the blades evenly a little at a time. I'd hesitate on this bit because it's easy to go too far very quickly. Look at the blade lips of the reed and make sure they are the same thickness. You wouldn't believe how many "good" highland pipe reeds are sent out in this state of unbalance. Just taking care of the lip edge can do wonders. If you are skittish about this, find a Scottish piper to do the job. I've heard ( not completely sure though) that weaker or weakend Scottish reeds will work in a Spanish or French pipe.
Now the drone reeds:
Try gently springing the tounge of the reed by pulling it up a bit with your fingernail and letting it snap back into place. Snap is the key word so don't go too hard. If it still shuts off too easily take a thin hair and insert it under the tongue back to the bridle. This should hold it open and keep it from shutting off. If this fails, try a thicker hair from the leg, beard, or nether regions of a willing donor. You'd be amazed what I've had to use in a jam. Lastly, if this drone reed is any where close to the size of a bass or tenor highland pipe reed, chuck it in the fire and get a wygent or other synthetic reed. There's not as much mucking about with those as there is with cane drone reeds. Sorry to go on at such length. Hope this helps.
Marc

[Lorenzo]

Amanderthad...sorry to hear of your Pakistani experience. Your story should help warn others of the consequences of venturing out on a dare in haste to acquire some nice looking zirconium for the price of real diamonds.

Weigh two alternatives carefully before making another bad decision: 1) either sell them "as is" to some other unsuspecting eBayer, like the runner-up bidder 2)let someone like Tim buy them and perform the additional $3,000 corrective surgery at his own risk. By this time the light should dawn and the decision should be easy.

Don't even attempt to "futz" with the reeds. They will surely sound even worse than the silence you now have. I've see HPs stick uilleann pipe reeds in their mouths before, to "get'em workin," and that's partly what causes dry reeds to close up--accidental moisture on the blades. The science is much more sophisticated than that! Closed Pakistani reeds need more than a good doctor. I saw the pictures of those Pakistani reeds and they are very poor impostors at best. You think the pipes are poor..don't over-estimate these reeds. They don't really resemble anything that any of us would actually value. They might work in a Bulgarian Duduk if they were chopped up a little. Toothpicks is another possibility.

I understand your discouragement, but to get them working...the price would scare you back to the other alternative which I don't really recommend. Welcome to the area between a "rock and a hard place" ...darned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Go to the market in Bangkok sometime, with both pockets empty, and just walk around slowly and observe all the so-called rubies being sold for big bucks that were actually man-made in Texas.

So, what the bail?? I know a museum that might bite on them.

Lorenzo

[marcpipes]

Dear Matt,
Biniou Kohz are mouth-blown pipes and the reeds can stand a fair bit more moisture than uillean pipe reeds. While we would never put U.P. reeds in our mouths, mouth blown pipe reeds can take it. Lorenzo makes a good point about the qulity of the pipes themselves. Before you start playing with the reeds, check the bores on the chanter and drones. Are the smooth, or do they look kinda fuzzy inside? If they are rough; especially the chanter don't waste your time. Hang'm on the wall and have a nice decoration or give them to a piper(ambitious tinkerer) you really want to frustrate. If there are any qualified pipe makers in your area, let them have a look to give you a final decision. Actually having someone look will give you much better results than any of our conjecture ever could. Best of luck. Marc

[amanderthad]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I did manage to get a sound out of them by squeezing the base with set of pliers. This brought the lips of the reed closer together. The sound of silence however was indeed preferable to the horrific strangled notes that would eminate only after imense amount of lung output and arm pressure on the bag. More than I think would be normal. I think I am going to continue to try and work the reeds myself until I can find someone to take a look at it. I don't think I want a complete overhaul as I am ordering a Gaita from Spain which will take about a year and a half. I wanted to get the feel for a mouth blown pipe and this was the cheapest available. I don't realy want to spend any more than the bare minimum to get it to sound without superhuman exertions. With that in mind I have few more specific questions. I think I am directing this most to you Marc as you seem to have some experience with the mouth blown pipes. First how far should the lips of the chanter reed be apart, if at all? Right now they are a hair or two apart and I'm wondering if this restricts the fow of air. I take it the side of the reed should also be sealed. Is there any way to check that or fix it if air is escaping from the side? Also When I was trying to play a scale, funny things were happening somewhere between the G and E notes, it was not that the tuning was off , but some sort of weird interval jump that seemed to be coming from the reed and not the fingering. Is this an indication of anything? also does anyone know where to get good reeds for a mouthblown pipe without bringing it to a pipe maker, for example is it good enough to tell the key of the chanter and the dimensions of the reed seat or to give a sample reed. I know bringing it to a maker is probably best but I want to save the cash.

Thanks again,

Matt Diaz

[marcpipes]

Dear Matt,
Pliers, PLIERS? ACH! I'm afraid this may have possibly cracked your reed. I'm sorry, I should have said to squeeze it just with your fingers. If the reed is cracked there's not a whole lot you can do. If there are no cracks the staple may have been squished to much to get the proper sound. Test for static air leaks at the sides the same way you would test a U.P. reed. Put the bottom of the reed in your mouth with your finger over the lips and inhale. If you feel air moving there is a leak. You may be able to close this by putting a few extra winds of dental floss around the wrapping and the bottom of the cane lips. This will also weaken the reed like a bridle.
Now the next thing to check is the bag itself. Take the drone and chanter out of the bag and cork the stocks. Blow up the bag and see how much if any air is leaking out. Check if the blowflap on the mouthpiece is letting any air back. This may be part of your problem. Is the bag leather or synthetic? If leather, a bag seasoning for highland pipes may work. A way to check for air leaks is to mix a little dish soap and water in a bowl, blow up the corked bag and use a soft brush to apply the solution along the seam of the bag and areas where the stocks are tied in. Air leaking out will make tell-tale bubbles. Another way is to fill up the bath tub and imerse the bag while it's blown up. Squeeze it while it's under water and see if any bubbles come out. Hang the bag and let it dry. The water really won't do any harm as long as you don't soak it over night. Remember to take the bag cover off too.(lol) If you worry about the stocks, apply a little bore oil with a soft cloth after you've dried them. Gaita's should not take any great amount of pressure to get them going. They are in fact much easier to blow than a highland pipe. The odd sounding between G and E may be a fault of the chanter bore, the reed or air leaking out of the bag. Hopefully this will narrow it down. By the way, how do the bores look; are they relatively clean? Hope this helps.
Marc

[amanderthad]

Hey Marc,

Blowflap on the mouthpiece? I don't think this bag has one as the second I finish blowing, the pressure forces air back into my mouth, or if I remove my mouth the bag quickly deflates. To get a note to sound I had been inflating the bag, plugging the mouth piece with my tounge (by the way do all bagpipes taste like burnt moss or is it just this one) and then squeezing like the devil. I know that it should not take so much pressure, but I was not aware of the blow flap, I thought under normal circumstances there would be enough air in the bag with a slight increase in arm pressure to maintain a note while you take a breath. Is it hard to fashion a home made blow-fap do yuo think? the bag is Synthetic and the bores are not totally smooth but not hairy either.

I don't think the reed is cracked. I applied the pliers gently to the staple as my fingers did not seem to be doing anything. These reeds seem pretty think and stiff, perhaps I will try to sand them and soften them a bit. Will also try the bit with the string.

Thanks for your advice

Matt

edited by Strunk & White

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: amanderthad on 2002-08-08 13:34 ]</font>

[marcpipes]

Dear Matt,
The blowpipe should be detachable, I hope. If you can pull it out of the stock there should be a "male" end that fits into the stock. The bottom of this is the end where the blowflap goes on. To make this follow these ten easy steps:
1. Remove all the hemp or cord from the blowpipe.
2. Sand or file a 1/4 inch flat spot up the side of the blowpipe end. (the bit that plugs in)
3. Take a piece of soft leather and place the blowpipe flat end down on it.
4. With a ball point pen, scribe around the blowpipe end and mark a space where the flat part you filed is. This is the point from which you extend a tail that the flap will be tied to the blowpipe. It should be the same width or a little narrower than the falt spot on the wood.
5. Carefully cut the blowflap from the leather. The circle should not extend beyond the wood of the blowpipe.
6. Line the blowpipe up on the flap and fold the tail up the pipe. Start winding the tail in place with dental floss. Make sure it stays in line.
7. Now that the flap is in place hold it down flat to the pipe end with your thumb.
With your free hand, take a craft knife and LIGHTLY score the fold of the leather about halfway through its thickness. Be careful not to cut all the way though.(your thumb either)
8. Finish winding the rest of the hemp (I prefer dental floss because it won't rot with moisture) and check while winding that the fit is not so tight as to prevent replacing it into the stock.
9. With the blowpipe out of the stock, blow and inhale to see if the flap is closing securely. You might want to run the flap under the running water to soak the leather and then press it into the hole of the blowpipe forming a dimple in the leather itself. This should make it airtight.
10. You might want to rub a little chapstick or hand lotion on the leather to keep it supple.
That mossy taste/smell you describe is not good. Hopefully you don't get some kind of lung-rot. Try blowing a little Scotch or listerine through the blowpipe. Not too much or you'll get it on the reeds. A half teaspoon or less should do it. You can get the type of leather you need at a craft store. Tandy sells little bags of scrap at places like Franks Nursery or Michaels. If you can't find leather, use a thin piece of rubbe from the side of an inner tube.
Once, my leather flap broke at a gig. In a pinch, I made one from layers of Scotch tape. It worked so well I left it on my pipes for a whole year. Electrical tape works to. Sticky sides touching of course.
Here now the sermon ends. Best of luck.
Marc

[John-N]

You can always make a lamp out of it

[johnz]

Hey there,
I got a set of Pakistani parlor pipes a couple of years ago. I knew what I was getting into, I wanted them for the challenge of getting them to play.I really haven't had the time to play with them but I feel that with the right work I could get them sounding pretty decent. Your pipes may require a huge amount of woodwork to get them right but with attention you might have something in the end.I would try to read everything you could about pipe making, and apply the knowlege to your set. The knowlege gained by screwing with the Pakis will serve you well after getting real pipes.If all goes poorly you can still hang them on the wall. People have payed more for uglier wall art.
Take care, Johnz

PS I wouldn't pay more then $10 or $20 for professional assistance eg. look them over and what not, they just aren't worth the expense.For getting reeds and such I would get quality GHB and SSP products. at least you could sell or give them to someone else that could use them if they didn't end up working.