Pipers and... piperesses?

[Douglas]

Hi David

I have seen programs and read about violin/fiddle making and it is quite interesting. So many things have been tried to duplicate a Stradivarius.

Hi Lorenzo

I have sailed but I have not tried windsurfing, although it does look like a lot of fun. You can go quite fast on those things. I like ocean activities; snorkeling, SCUBA, and I have an ocean kayak too. Those were things I did before I had kids. I have become so domesticated, and fat. But those kids are great. No way I would want to go back.

[djm]

You'd have to learn how to make a baroque violin first in order to copy Stradivarius. His stuff was only considered mediocre in the baroque period. It was when modern composers demanded higher tunings in the 18th-19th century and violins were being rebuilt to the new standards that Stradivarius stood out. All the other baroque stuff lost its beutiful dark tones except his stuff. That's what made him famous.

djm

[Joseph E. Smith]

Plus, for the most part, the tone holes dictate the tone automatically,

..OK...I kinda asked for that...but the point I was trying to make, is that to play a note on a chanter, whistle, what have you...simply cover the hole and it is there (or it is supposed to be anyway).

With the fiddle, you have to be accurate with the finger placement to produce the note in tune...a little north or south of that on the string, and you are out of tune. Then there is the matter of what kind of finger pressure that one uses. Varying pressures have varying tones, and the utilization of the pressures tastefully can produce great effects and tone. Then there is the other can of worms....the bow. But I'll leave that off for now. There is a lot more to producing an 'in tune' note on the fiddle than on a chanter (just using the fingers, mind you)....IMHO.

[ausdag]

With the fiddle, you have to be accurate with the finger placement to produce the note in tune...a little north or south of that on the string, and you are out of tune. Then there is the matter of what kind of finger pressure that one uses. Varying pressures have varying tones, and the utilization of the pressures tastefully can produce great effects and tone. There is a lot more to producing an 'in tune' note on the fiddle than on a chanter (just using the fingers, mind you)....IMHO.

Add to that the issue of using finger tips or finger pads on the strings - something I don't know much about, but our fiddle player went through a period of getting quite frustrated over which was better to use.

[No E]

You'd have to learn how to make a baroque violin first in order to copy Stradivarius. His stuff was only considered mediocre in the baroque period. It was when modern composers demanded higher tunings in the 18th-19th century and violins were being rebuilt to the new standards that Stradivarius stood out. All the other baroque stuff lost its beutiful dark tones except his stuff. That's what made him famous.

djm

Don't forget Amati and Guinari! Must have been something about Cremona.

No E

[Lorenzo]

You'd have to learn how to make a baroque violin first in order to copy Stradivarius. His stuff was only considered mediocre in the baroque period. It was when modern composers demanded higher tunings in the 18th-19th century and violins were being rebuilt to the new standards that Stradivarius stood out. All the other baroque stuff lost its beutiful dark tones except his stuff. That's what made him famous.

djm

Don't forget Amati and Guinari!

You're on to it. There is a lot of mythology about violin making and in the history of the violin. Nearly all the baroque bass bars in the original Strads have been replaced, plus longer necks have given a longer sounding length of the string...which adds to the power.

"Stradivarius improved the design of the violin by flattening out the arching. The flatter arching gives the violin more power and less nasalness. However, Stradivarius used a baroque style bass bar which has been replaced in each of his violins many times over the years. So a Stradivarius is only partly a Stradivarius."

"I remember Isaac Stern showed me the violin he used regularly. It was the Ysaye Guarnerius. At that time about 7 years ago it was worth 4 million dollars. What does that tell me? I don't know who has it now after his unfortunate death but it will probably be renamed the Stern Guarnerius. The really good Strads and Guarneri's are passed down from one soloist to another." -by Peter Zaret, Presented at the Suzuki Association of the Americas 2004 National Conference, May 28-31 http://www.zaretandsonsviolins.com/goodsounding.html

Did "Little Ice Age" Create Stradivarius Violins' Famous Tone?

John Pickrell in England
for National Geographic News
January 7, 2004
See National Geographic article.

[steph_c]

Playing both, I have to agree that fiddle is the tougher instrument to learn....
(snippity snip)

But none of this has much to do with lassies piping

Alrighty back on topic; I am a lassie doing both.

Learned the fiddle first, and have now been working away on the pipes since September. Getting a note 'in tune' strikes me as being much more difficult on the pipes, and is taking much longer than I remember it taking with the fiddle. This despite already having the tunes in my head this time around.

Hrmmm. I am quite comfortable with the fiddle, and so may have just forgotten the daily effort involved in getting there, and this effort with the pipes is very front and center for me these days.

I attribute the apparent disparity to there being, at least in my present-day perception and opinion, more variables that contribute to the intonation of each note on the pipes.

I. The Physical (Human) Variables Contributing to Intonation

Fingers have to learn where they ought to go on the fiddle, I grant you that. And I concede that it takes awhile to get there, they have to learn to make micro and sometimes macro-adjustments, particularly if you're coming in not having any tunes in your head. I have to argue though that the bow contributes measureably to the overall equation that results in intonation - not to say that it doesn't at all, or if you're really reefing down on the strings, but just not appreciably for the arguements here. Bowing = phrasing (hardware being equal)

With the pipes I am finding that not only am I worried about simultaneously trying to keep my hands relaxed. despite trying to keep my fingers forming a nice tight seal over the holes, all the while meditatively trying to not think about the physical motion required by one arm to move the bellows (without my fingers slipping off the holes I am trying so hard not to tightly grab, and without the pitch wavering as I do so), and the same non-conscious effort for my other hand as the other arm does its thing - there's all this physical effort going on - *then* I discover that I have to make very subtle changes in bag pressure for certain notes, now requiring my upper left arm to be a concerned participant and not just a silent slave to my designs.

II. Hardware-Variables Contributing to Intonation

Ummm...I think ye all know the score here.


What's really daunting is to think that I have been training my various appendages to move in a certain way in order to achieve an in-tune note, and that a different reed most certainly would require me to retrain the muscle memory to adjust. I understand that these are smaller adjustments relative to the effort presently underway, nonetheless I include it in the equation having seen the number of "Dear God My Back D has Gone to Hell in a Hand Basket with This New Fecking Reed!" posts.

Whether it is more difficult to 'master' the fiddle or the pipes, I really can't say, having done neither. And what is that really?

That all having been spewed forth, I'm guessing I'll look back in a year or so, think that my present-day self is full of crap (because I'll remember these past few months as all sunshine and puppy dogs and nothing else), and grunt out:

"Tuning!?? It's all in the reed-flexes..."

Cheers (sorry for the bad pun, but this *is* the Internet and I can be as lame as I want to be)
Steph

[Uilliam]

Quote frae this years Celtic Connections Programme....

"Learn Irish Pipes in a Day
The ever popular Dave Shaw returns for another set of his unique workshops....and you can really learn them in a day..Dave Shaw
will take his students through simple techniques and fingering so that simple tunes will be played at the end of the day.Complete beginners welcome and pipes are supplied.Over 12's only please 11am-4pm £30"

Dave has been doing this for about 6 years so I guess it is true otherwise people would want their money back and he wouldnae be asked to keep coming back to Celtic Connections....

Maybe folk are quick learners over this side o the pond...
I make no comment other than I do not see Learn the Violin in a Day !!!!
Uilliam

[Cayden]

Plus, for the most part, the tone holes dictate the tone automatically,

..OK...I kinda asked for that...but the point I was trying to make, is that to play a note on a chanter, whistle, what have you...simply cover the hole and it is there (or it is supposed to be anyway).

.

I know the point you were trying to make but if it were so simple, that a tone would be there by simple uncovering a hole, why did Ennis sound different from Clancy or Flynn, even when playing the same pipes and doesn't intonation come into it at all (I'd say it does).

[David Lim]

Learn violin in one day

and only $15

David

[David Lim]

But seriously.

Here in Manchester we have only one female piper and she's not been seen for a while.

In general women are well represented, we can often have sessions that are 50% female.

The large majority of the up and coming youngsters are girls.

And I don't think anyone has mentioned Lucy Delap a fine piper from Cambridge. One of her students (a girl) has recently won an All Ireland.

David

[beckitybek]

Here in Manchester we have only one female piper and she's not been seen for a while.


David

Sorry David I really must get out more - give me a shout when you're out and about please!

[Uilliam]

One of her students (a girl) has recently won an All Ireland.

David

Grace Lemon came 3rd in the under 12's
The advert for the Uilleann Pipe Tuition was serious.... :roll:
Uilliam

[David Lim]

Grace Lemon came 3rd in the under 12's

Uilliam

From the Comhaltas website, Fleadh Results page here:

2004 Fleadh Results

Comórtas 7 Píob Uilleann/Uilleann Pipes, about a quarter of the way down

It clearly states Under 12s: 1st Grace Lemon

Don't do the girl down, she deserve every credit for her achievement.

As does her teacher.


David

[elbogo]

Not only that, but a really good bow can cost way more than a full set of
pipes!! Like, how about $18,000. yet, just for a bow!!?? Of course, we're talking concert violin here... as well as way professional violinist too...