Davy Stephenson kits?

LarryM · Post by **LarryM** » Tue May 13, 2003 5:09 pm

Alan you really know how to brighten up a guy's day....more trials and tribulations...I cant take it!!

I just want to get playing my pipes!!

My Missus gives me enough trials and tribulations !!

ston · Post by **ston** » Tue May 13, 2003 11:27 pm

It seems weird to me. In person, people are plenty willing to state a negative opinion of a pipe maker, but in a public forum it seems to be frowned on. Can anyone help me out on why that's the case? I mean, politeness is good and all, but if people only ever give positive reports then there's not much basis for comparison. The only bad comments ever posted are about Pakistani sets (which I imagine is easier, since there's no known name attatched to the sets).

-David

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Wed May 14, 2003 12:31 am

Maybe folks are more adverse towards critique on forums and message boards because our innate judgement tells us that giving a critique in informal conversation is one thing but to write it where it can be viewed publicly opens the door to slander.
I know of people who have critiqued a product on a newsgroup and received phone calls from the makers accusing them of slander and defamation. Whether or not that was a reasonable response remains debatable but these places are still rather public.
A person forms a kind of private relationship with the computer, even if they are at an internet cafe. When somebody questions or refutes your statements it can be easily taken personally because of that relationship and when you get drawn into an argument you don't stand back and realize that you might be overreacting or look foolish.
This behavior has been the downfall of many a newsgroup, forum, or message board.
Cheers,
Aaron

boyd · Post by **boyd** » Wed May 14, 2003 1:27 am

Calum
I sent you a PM

Boyd
www.strathspeyinmay.com

Grantown-on-Spey

Kevin Popejoy · Post by **Kevin Popejoy** » Tue May 27, 2003 9:12 pm

stew · Post by **stew** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:26 am

Hi guys,

anyone heard if larry M got his pipe problem sorted with his maker
yet? he did not seem very happy from what I understood and just
that its been a month now did he get the problem solved.

bagpipeworks · Post by **bagpipeworks** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:22 pm

Stew

Why do I get the distinct feeling that you are rubbing it in, Isn't this thread supposed to be about my pipe kits, I think we all know by now what has been said, if your are so interested why don't you ask him yourself, I'm sure everyone thanks you for the reminder though.
And finally to answer your question, I am still waiting for the item to arrive for repair.

No hard feelings

Davy.

stew · Post by **stew** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:39 pm

Sorry Davy,
No offence ment.

bagpipeworks · Post by **bagpipeworks** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:42 pm

Stew

Thanks, Nuf said.

Davy.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:33 pm

AaronMalcomb wrote:Maybe folks are more adverse towards critique on forums and message boards because our innate judgement tells us that giving a critique in informal conversation is one thing but to write it where it can be viewed publicly opens the door to slander.
I know of people who have critiqued a product on a newsgroup and received phone calls from the makers accusing them of slander and defamation. Whether or not that was a reasonable response remains debatable but these places are still rather public.
A person forms a kind of private relationship with the computer, even if they are at an internet cafe. When somebody questions or refutes your statements it can be easily taken personally because of that relationship and when you get drawn into an argument you don't stand back and realize that you might be overreacting or look foolish.
This behavior has been the downfall of many a newsgroup, forum, or message board.
Cheers,
Aaron

I seriously doubt if anyone could get in trouble for critiquing either someone or someones product on a message board like this, esp in the US. What is said on these forums is no different than writing a letter to the editor in your newspaper. Have you ever seen the letters that the knowledgable editors print as legally acceptable? They know the boundary lines. I don't think there's any case law that supports the idea of defamation or slander if accompanied by "opinion." These kind of attempts to challenge someone in court are usually just preliminary scare tactics, kinda like a letter from somone's attorney stating that "we do indeed intend to pursue and challange your action through litigation" and it often works to keep expenses down on something that would likely get thrown out of court anyway.

The cases that do win are articles by a publisher who doesn't offer an opinion, but just prints and publishes junk as a matter of fact outside the "opinion forum" of the magazine of newpaper.

Read some book reviews on Amazon. Some pretty tasteless junk there. On TV, listen to what critics say about certain movies, or what one candidate says about the other during an election. I remember Bush senior calling Clinton a "charlatan" in the early 90's. In this country the laws are liberally construed to protect our freedom of speech. Defamation and slander take some pretty high-aspect considerations before a judge will even take on a case. "As far as the jury was concerned, Mr. Jones, it does indeed look as though you were acting like an 'idiot.'"

Here on this pipe forum, it's just a courtesy (self-restraint) that hopes to equal the same respect we give our own pipes. Uilleann piping almost inherently deserves pipers who have an unusual sense of appreciation and respect for their fellow pipers.

Calum · Post by **Calum** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:11 am

There's several different issues here, legally.

One is 'common carrier' status: for example, a provider of Usenet access is not liable for anything actionable on his server, as he does not exercise control over it.

Web forums are a greyer area, but given that they are moderated and controlled to a degree, it's at least theoretically possible that Dale et al. could be legally liable.

Libel laws differ between the US and Britain, and I think Ireland's are cast in the same mold as Britains. In the US, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, not the accused. So if an American nails a treatise on his door claiming that so-and-so's pipes are crap, so-and-so must prove that they're not - obviously difficult. OTOH, in Britain, I have to prove that I was being truthful, meaning I have to come up with a substantial pile of c*** pipes. Easy.

Both systems have advantages and disadvantages; America's is perhaps morally sounder, but the UKs does lead to better media quality in the long term, IMO.

Obviously, IANAL, take pinch of salt, consult your lawyer, etc.

Cheers,
Calum

Chiff and Fipple Forums

Davy Stephenson kits?

Rubbing salt into the wound

Thanks