Insights on the quick bounce when playing notes

[MattMads]

Great conversation, Tommy I think you provide the insight. I understand the grace note and triplet. Those I can do and drill on quite often. I would admit that my grip tight. It sounds like relaxing the fingers might be a good place to start. I hear also that there is intentional double tapping of the note to achieve the ornamentation. I'll post an audio sample of what I'm referring to. That may provide a little more insight. Thanks for the comments.

[ausdag]

You mean the 'Sean Og Potts' - style bounce as in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFsx39t0EeU

That's just a case of relaxing your fingers and literally letting them bounce as you 'strike' the finger back down on the tone hole. To me it's a sort of mix between relaxing and tensing to affect a bounce of the finger as it comes down to close the hole. Kind of like striking a clothes iron to test if it's hot or not but then putting your finger back on. I know that's a very paradoxical and conviluted way of describing it, but when you can do it, you'll know that you can do it - that's about the only way I can say how to do it.

[Calum]

Is this what we GHBers would call a half doubling? Something like BdB {Ac}AFA?

[MattMads]

David,

The Sean Potts video is exactly what I am referring to. Great example. So much to be said with You Tube than with words.

Can this technique be practiced or just developed over time, days, weeks, years, decades, ever?
I just wonder if at some time your teacher or another piper would say, "now you should start trying to bounce these notes, here is how you do it."

[ausdag]

I think it's something you decide you like and decide you want to try and develop in your own piping. To what degree you bounce your notes is a matter of personal taste. Some like to infuse their tunes with bubbliness a-la the Potts style, others, a little here and there. Others not much at all except as maybe the occassional bounce on A, G or bottom D.

[pancelticpiper]

Thanks for posting the video.

Yes he's doing loads of what in the wider musical world is called a pralltriller, which is basically a short trill: go from the note above, and the finger coming down does a single bounce.

Leo Rowsome in his 1926 Tutor calls it an "upper mordent".

It's the same as the "half doublings" on the Highland pipes which are necessary when coming from High A (due to no initial gracenote finger being available). Well, the same as far as the note, though not the same in timing, usually.

On the uilleann pipes I usually hear that done on two notes, F# and A. On E it's usually different, with the same finger (lowerhand index finger) that's used for F# doing the short trill/mordent, meaning that the upper note is a 3rd above the melody note, rather than the upper neighbor tone as is usual. Ditto Highland pipes, where the lowerhand index finger is the one doing the ornament on C#, B, Low A, and Low G. Cool when there's parallel techniques like that between uilleann and Highland pipes.

About when to do ornaments in one's playing career, with Highland pipes one learns the full spectrum of ornaments from the get-go. With the uilleann pipes I've heard players with large repertoires who play in sessions all the time who haven't learned hardly any ornaments, they mostly just play plain notes. That wouldn't do in the Highland world.

[paintedgreen]

Thanks for the insight Richard, rather helpful for highland players.

Yet another step towards understanding the uilleann pipes from the GHB.

[CaperMike]

That's interesting. Just playing some Baroque tunes with my violin playing 8 year old daughter (who dabbles in both trad and classical) and came across the lower and upper mordent ornamentations. Can't say I'm confident with the timing yet in Baroque and/or trad but it is interesting that Leo Rowsome would use the term "mordent". Always loved Sean Potts bounciness in Munster Buttermilk.

Mike

Thanks for posting the video.

Yes he's doing loads of what in the wider musical world is called a pralltriller, which is basically a short trill: go from the note above, and the finger coming down does a single bounce.

Leo Rowsome in his 1926 Tutor calls it an "upper mordent".

It's the same as the "half doublings" on the Highland pipes which are necessary when coming from High A (due to no initial gracenote finger being available). Well, the same as far as the note, though not the same in timing, usually.

On the uilleann pipes I usually hear that done on two notes, F# and A. On E it's usually different, with the same finger (lowerhand index finger) that's used for F# doing the short trill/mordent, meaning that the upper note is a 3rd above the melody note, rather than the upper neighbor tone as is usual. Ditto Highland pipes, where the lowerhand index finger is the one doing the ornament on C#, B, Low A, and Low G. Cool when there's parallel techniques like that between uilleann and Highland pipes.

About when to do ornaments in one's playing career, with Highland pipes one learns the full spectrum of ornaments from the get-go. With the uilleann pipes I've heard players with large repertoires who play in sessions all the time who haven't learned hardly any ornaments, they mostly just play plain notes. That wouldn't do in the Highland world.

[MattMads]

I almost used the word trill in my OP, but decided not too. Go with the gut next time. Thanks Richard for that explanation. Having a name for something is so much better than "that thing they do with their fingers" Has anyone set out to learn this technique intentionally? I happen to fancy this style of playing. I'll have to go back to my Pipers Choice cd set and see if there is any commentary on that style of piping.
Matt

[myrddinemrys]

It takes a bit of practice, but I usually think of it as bouncing my finger. Keep your fingers relaxed.