speed

[john]

I listened to keenan and glackin play the dublin reel recently on 'doublin' and although they were up to the challenge i found it far too fast to enjoy - i don't think that music should a competition to see who's fastest - music can be more expressive when you take the time to really give each note it's full value - does anyone agree?

[MTGuru]

Deliberately playing devil's advocate ...

Who do you think they're competing with? Music can also be expressive when you drive it to its maximum potential for excitement. Speed is an expressive choice like any other. If a particular tempo challenges the listener to listen actively, perhaps the problem lies with the listener and not the player. And the experience of music accrues to the player as well as the listener. There is a kind of transcendence to be had at the upper edge of the speed envelope, with the expression of complete mastery at the limits of human mental and physical capability. This may be part of what is being communicated by a particular performance, and it behooves the listener to judge it by its intent and effect. One size of listening aesthetics does not fit all.

As it is, in this recording I hear nothing but "full value" given to each note, ornament, and nuance. And in metronome terms it's really not that fast, around 120 bpm.

OK, how's that for devilish?

[john]

i've just checked and found i was playing at 45rpm (a bit embarrassing)

i'm actually listening again and find the pace more acceptable and at the right speed the sound of the pipes does resonate beautifully

however, i think there is a balance to be reached between playing with fire and excitement and not losing sweetness of tone

[MTGuru]

Oops. Well, I certainly agree that constant speed-demoning (or constant anything) can get very, very tiresome. But honestly, a problem I've sometimes encountered is the opposite - players whose instruments don't ever seem to go beyond second gear. And there's nothing like a plodding pace without expression to suck the life right out of dance music that wants to run free at least now and then.

[patrick Jacob]

In fact, this is a good topic. Speed , (high speed tempo) is a big problem in Irish music.
To make nice music, a right flow and ritme is the answer in this, I guess.

Patrick

[Kinry]

The whole issue of speed in ITM is a complicated one, isn't it? When playing for traditional dancing this sort of regulated the speed at which people could play, but ITM is more often played without any dancers now than with, and when there is dancing it is often not what you would call traditional, and neither is the music. But then there has for a long time been playing what you might term dance tunes simply for listening pleasure. On the pipes the likes of Johnny Doran would be doing this, playing at fayres and festivals, and there the lively speed and the skill of the player were all part of the spectacle. So who is to judge what is the "correct" speed for a tune. It really falls down to taste.

I will say that for my tastes a lot of people play for too fast. I find each tune has a speed it feels comfortable at. Some reels are IMO best played slower, and others at a fair rollicking pace. Same with the jigs. But there is a tendency now, especially in sessions to play everything at a heinously brisk pace, without regard for taste or decency, or the feelings of the less nimble fingered who might want to join in.

[fancypiper]

My bug-a-boo is hornpipes played as fast as a reel. You gotta have time to do the triplets crisp and in time and you just don't sound right when you have to leave them out for the sake of speed.

I like the leasurely and laid back speed of single jigs like "Off She Goes". Someone needs to compose a tune called "You Gotta Have Bounce"

[Uilliam]

Hornpipes are meant to be fast 180 ....compared to jigs 127 and reels 224

[Pipewort]

[quote][Hornpipes are meant to be fast 180 ....compared to jigs 127 and reels 224
/quote]

180 of what, beats, crotchet beats per minute? You would be fair flee'in at 180 of those per minute for a hornpipe, let alone 224 for a reel. Correct me if you would like, but I would suggest something closer to 100 is a more relistic and musically achievable tempo for a hornpipe.

My metronome, not one made by stratocaster et al, only goes up to 210.

Pwrt

[Uilliam]

Pipewort ye know damn well whit I mean given we had this exact same topic in March 2008 to quote...
me..frae Ceol Rince na hEireann.Book 1.Breandan Breathnach.pge ix...............................................................

you.. It is misleading to state that a hornpipe tempo is 180, and that of a reel is 224, as Uilliam does, as half of these beats are, as PJ indicates, backbeats.

Bill...Breathnach gives the tempo of hornpipes and reels in terms of the length of the crotchet, at 180 and 224 respectively..
He could just as easily have written a "half note" in place of the crotchet and indicated tempos of 80 and 112 bpm, respectively.


So why are ye acting the innocent???
May as well bin the search programme

[Cash the Piper]

Speed comes from muscle memory acquired through repetitions. You're never going to develop ANY speed if you don't play enough, and by "enough," I mean close to every f---in day. Once a week for three hours won't cut it.

If you want to play faster, try playing a tune you like for half an hour slowly. Ratchet the speed up a little bit the next day, but don't go any faster. Do the same again the following day.

Within a week you'll be tearing along like a hoor's knickers

[Elmek]

Look up Steve Turner - very good relaxed playing at a reasonable pace which IMHO is a lot better and far more impressive than a blur of notes

John