newbie asks ...what about Eb flutes?

rama · Post by **rama** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 10:43 pm

I'm interested in obtaining a rowdy Eb flute. Can anybody who owns such a beast suggest a flutemaker? Maybe describe the difference among the makers?

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 8:55 am

My suggestions would be the same for D flutes, the same makers, for the same reasons. Almost all makers will make an Eb. The reach is a tad easier, and a bit less air, so playing one is also a bit easier. That said, you might be on your own, unless you know of sessions or other players that play in that key. Many CDs are/were recorded on Ebs, probably because the players enjoy the "quickness" of the flute's response.
Hammy Hamilton makes great flutes, but for some reason charges a surcharge (or used to; haven't checked in a bit) for Eb flutes, where his E and F flutes cost less (for the less wood. Since you're looking for a flute with bite, surcharge or not, I'd recommend a Hamilton first. But as I said, most makers make them and charge the same as for their D flutes. Dave Copley comes highly recommended on this forum, but I've never played his flutes, Cotter is good, we all know about Olwells and the top-price boys; pretty much any flute that has a good reputation for it's "regular" flutes will make a good Eb.

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 9:07 am

Why not try an Eb Olwell Bamboo. His Bamboos are very very nearly as good as any flute out there and will only set you back seventy or eighty bucks. If, having tried it, you think the key of Eb is to die for you can play your bamboo while you sit on someone's waiting list.

Doc

shoner · Post by **shoner** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:03 am

I purchased an 8 keyed Eb flute from India off of Ebay for a grand total of $70. The flute is made out of some funky plastic ebonite but it is an amazing flute at a ridiculous price. Intonation is excellent. Keys are cheesy but do the job. I also have a cocus wood Eb Boosey from 1916 and the Indian model is a direct copy of this flute. Compared against the wood flute, the sound of the ebonite model is very respectable. Not as nice as the Boosey, duh, but for $70 it is unbelievable.

These flutes are always listed on Ebay as "Eb flute with free case". They cost $35 and $35 to ship. Took about 10 days to receive it. Be sure to oil up the tuning slide when you get it home or it will seize up on you as mine has. You'll also have to replace the headjoint cork. They use some thin section of cork that doesn't really work. Helps to run a 3M pad wrapped around a dowel rod to smooth out the bore a bit too but hey, for $70 what do you want?

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:21 am

That cheapie on eBay is tempting. I may be dense here, but what is the advantage/point of an E flat flute? Is it just a solo instrument? Are there certain tunes it's advantageous to have it for?

Shoner - with 8 keys, does it play down below Eb?

shoner · Post by **shoner** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:32 am

The advantage of an Eb flute is you get to play along with Matt Malloy on all his incredible recordings featuring Eb flute, including that most amazing recording of all time with Tommy Peoples and Paul Brady. Wow, pure bliss.

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 12:09 pm

Do you think Matt Molloy recorded on the Eb flute because he found one of these cheapies on eBay and liked it so much?

BTW - You didn't mention if the 8 keys allow for playing below the Eb bell note?

rama · Post by **rama** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 12:33 pm

thanks for the replies, however i'm more interested in hearing from anyone who owns one, plays one, and knows firsthand what i'm asking about, no cheapies plz. only interested in the real deal.

anyone own a Eb flute by Wilkes, Hamilton, Cotter, Murray, or any other reputable maker ??

[ This Message was edited by: rama on 2003-02-18 13:37 ]

[ This Message was edited by: rama on 2003-02-18 13:52 ]

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 12:58 pm

You're best off following Gordon's advice above: most of the good makers of D flutes also offer Eb flutes, and those flutes will likely be just as good as their D models. I've played or borrowed several Eb flutes by various makers at one time or another. In general, I think Eb flutes tend to be more similar across makers than their D flutes are. Maybe the differences are more subtle. Bryan Byrne made a Pratten-style Eb flute that reportedly was loud enough to crack a glass when it was played in a pub in Ireland (I think Patrick Olwell was there and witnessed it), but I've also played one of Bryan's Rudall-style Eb flutes that seemed just as penetrating.

Harry Bradley recorded some tunes on an Eb Cotter flute on his first solo album, and an Eb Murray on his second album. Jimmy Noonan recorded some tunes on a Bryan Byrne Eb flute on his Maple Leaf album.

I think you'll want blackwood.

[ This Message was edited by: bradhurley on 2003-02-18 14:07 ]

rama · Post by **rama** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 1:58 pm

brad,
i disagree, i don't think Eb flutes are all that similiar across makers (as indicative of your story about brian's glass shattering Eb). i'm interested in learning more about the flutes currently available, their differences, and any problems ( i.e. proper pitch, tuning problems to be worked out etc.)

choice of wood is a seperate issue for me but thanks for your suggestion, i'll certainly consider it.

shoner · Post by **shoner** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:26 pm

hare rama,

While you research contemporary Eb flutes, you may want to consider the $70 special. As mentioned, it is copied from the Boosey Pratten Eb. Tuning is spot on and the keys actually work (although keys for Irish flutes are waaay overated). With a tad bit of tweaking, you'll have a nonwood flute that to my ear sounds better than any polymer D flute. I have a Seery and compared to my wood flutes I'd rank it at 70% of the wood sound and responsiveness. The Indian knock-off compared to the original Boosey I'd put at 85%.

Eb flutes are extremely lively and a blast to play. Ornaments sound like you're playing a tabla. They crack. Take the plunge, we're talking $70 compared to over $700, and that's for a keyless.

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:46 pm

On 2003-02-18 14:58, rama wrote:
brad,
i disagree, i don't think Eb flutes are all that similiar across makers (as indicative of your story about brian's glass shattering Eb). i'm interested in learning more about the flutes currently available, their differences, and any problems ( i.e. proper pitch, tuning problems to be worked out etc.)

choice of wood is a seperate issue for me but thanks for your suggestion, i'll certainly consider it.

Well, Brad's correct, though. A Hamilton Eb is not going to have intonation problems his D doesn't, nor is any other reputable maker, Byrne, Cotter, etc. The characteristics of an Eb is a bit different from a D flute, in that the slightly higher pitch and faster response will make the Eb characteristics a bit more subtle, maker to maker. But if you're looking for a loud, honking Eb, go for a maker of a good Pratten, and if you're looking for something a bit more "refined", a Rudall-type.
Quality is quality, so if you are at all familiar with the more reputable makers, find one you like and trust, and have them make you a nice Eb; you can (and should) always speak to them first, to get their take on their own product.
For what it's worth, blackwood is probably the best wood for a higher-pitched flute, and I personally would avoid a knock-off polymer from India; I suspect the one that Shoner is raving about is a fluke good flute, not the rule, and $70 for me is still not worth throwing away.

[ This Message was edited by: Gordon on 2003-02-18 15:47 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Gordon on 2003-02-18 15:50 ]

rama · Post by **rama** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:53 pm

Gordon,

What Eb flute do you play?

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 4:05 pm

Sorry, I guess I should have been more specific. Here are the Eb flutes that I've played, most just for a few minutes, but I borrowed the Byrne Rudall for a month or so when I was teaching a flute student who had an Eb flute. I don't own an Eb flute myself because I'm not really drawn to the sound, although they're certainly fun to play.

1. Bryan Byrne keyless Pratten-style Eb. Great tone, great volume, no intonation problems.

2. Bryan Byrne keyless Rudall-style Eb. Great tone, great volume, no intonation problems, and I could use my D headjoint on it.

3. Eamonn Cotter keyless Eb. Great tone, great volume, no intonation problems.

4. Chris Wilkes 6-key Eb (the one owned by Jean-Michel Veillon). Great tone, great volume, no intonation problems.

[ This Message was edited by: bradhurley on 2003-02-18 17:07 ]

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 5:07 pm

I think Brad's played my Eb (Byrne keyless Rudall). I also think that any prospective Eb buyer needs to know a couple of things.

One: the Eb is a DIFFERENT INSTRUMENT. It's not just a small D. It's nearly as different from D as is a Bb flute. At least, that's my humble opinion.

Two: I would humbly suggest that an Eb is NOT easier to play than a D.

The general Eb-ness can be characterized as 'quick.' The intonation and response of an Eb is quite facile. Ostensibly, I think at first they seem considerably easier to play than a D. You don't have to work so hard on the top and bottom ends, and the flute seems to respond to your fingers before you move them.

And there's the rub: your articulation (with your fingers, glottis, tongue, whatever) needs to be perfect. The Eb is a really nice flute to work-out on. Actually, I think Bb and Eb complement the D nicely. The Eb is a little thing with amazingly quick response which is totally unforgiving. The Bb has a less-manageable finger span, which leads (when you work on it) to a more relaxed grip. Bb flutes tend to be mellower and more forgiving. The D is in between, leaning towards the Eb.

So that's my 2 cents' worth.

Stuart