Help me make up my mind

[farmerjones]

So I'm going to get a flute. I've always liked the way the instrument sounds and whistle have shown me that I like playing them as well. I want to get a more rounded instrument than my whistle were I have a bigger say in how loud it will play, the volume difference between octaves being the primary concern here, tone, etc. I have three choices, as far as I can see, and I'd like you guys to go over them:

1) Sweetheart resonance: At a price not much more than the Burns Folk Flute, it has a end cap, tuning slide, and better visual appeal (to me anyway, and this is subjective). I've been practicing a lot of half holing on my low D and I'm getting better at it. A Clark C whistle I got as a gift recently came with a chart for "chromatic fingerings" and I've been practicing those. I'm currently leaning in this direction. I don't think there is much I wouldn't be able to play with it.

2) Baroque flute: Sweet also makes on of these. I've read that the smaller holes and the addition of a Eb key makes this more or less fully chromatic with cross fingering. Potentially, any style could be played with this one and it comes with a middle section so it can be played in two different tones (A-440 and A-415).

Between these two, and I unfortunately cannot see them in person, the holes seem to be the same size. How would that Resonance perform at cross fingering and half holing?

3) A student model Boehm style flute. Craigslist is full of these and for low prices. My only concern here is that I'd lose the ability to do a lot of ornaments that I like (cuts, rolls, etc). Is that true?

I must admit to liking the first two choices for their simplicity. That is very appealing to me on many levels. Thanks for your help yet again, C&F!

[kkrell]

The Sweetheart Resonance DOES NOT have a tuning slide. Just like the Casey Burns Folk Flutes, it uses a long tenon for the tuning. The Sweetheart has a single piece body for both hands, the Burns splits the hands, so that you can rotate the joints for comfort. The price for the Burns Folk Flute is $375 in blackwood (but no rings) vs. the Sweetheart in blackwood at $595 (w/rings). The thicker wood at the sockets on the Burns provides good support at the joints, so rings should not be a necessity. Note that the low-cost Sweetheart Maple version uses a similar approach and forgoes a ring at that position.

The Casey Burns Folk Flutes are great-sounding, in either blackwood or boxwood (to me, boxwood has a warmer tone), and play just as well as his fancier and more expensive models. I would recommend them. I have played many of his flutes. I have not played the Sweetheart flutes, but its price differential of an additional $220 for the blackwood version (and I don't care for rosewood or maple as flute woods) does not seem worth it to me in this type of model (keyless, slideless).

To put it most clearly, if I had that $600 to spend on a keyless flute, I would buy the Casey Burns flute at $375 (for a wood flute), a Copley 3-piece blackwood ($550, no slide) or if I wanted Delrin (in part for durability & ease of care), I would purchase a Copley ($360 delrin slide/tenon w/elliptical embouchure), or Somers ($395 metal slide).

Kevin Krell

[Gordon]

Only advice I can give you is what you shouldn't do - buy a cheap student Boehm flute from Craig's list. Used flutes usually need re-pads or an overhaul before they're properly playable, which will set you back double or more what you spent in the first place - a real cheap deal usually ends up in the same price range as a new flute, without need of a re-pad, and you've spent all that on an inexpensive student flute. If you want a decent student flute, go to a music store and try them out - one advantage silver flutes have over most conical 'Irish' or Baroque flutes. Decent student flutes start around the $500 mark, but are worth it if you're leaning more toward jazz, rock, blues, classical, rather than trad.

Good luck.

[paddler]

I don't know if you have considered, or are interested in, other options, but in the same kind of price range you could get a really nice keyless flute from makers such as Dave Copley (in Delrin) or Casey Burns (folk flute). Other makers have nice Delrin flute options (such as Forbes). At the lower end of your price range Geoffrey Ellis has a really nice keyless wooden flute.

The other option you have is a restored antique wooden flute with keys (fully chromatic). In the price range you are looking you would probably be restricted to antique German flutes, and while some of them are not very good players, there are also others that play very well. If you are going to be playing in sessions you will need one that plays well at A=440hz. Such flutes do exist (I even have one or two myself, and I'm right here in Portland). If you are primarily interested in playing by yourself, there are quite a lot more relatively inexpensive antiques that play very well, but are tuned at A=435hz or so. These flutes are very well in tune with themselves, but would not be in tune with others at a session.

At least for my interests (which admittedly may not align exactly with yours) I would consider all of the above options to be preferable to most of the ones you outlined (although I certainly have nothing against the Sweatheart flutes).

Cheers!

Jon

[farmerjones]

I meant to add that as an issue with the Craigslist flutes. I've heard that you often have to have the key pads replaced. That one is probably out. I could go to a local store that does rent to own on flutes and try several. I think the only thing I'd get from it is that I don know how to play a flute.

Kevin: why don't you like rosewood? That was the model I was looking at in particular and I think it's only $420. Good to know about the "tuning slide" as well. I take it that both flutes can be tuned to a certain degree?

Jon: are you selling any?

[kkrell]

I meant to add that as an issue with the Craigslist flutes. I've heard that you often have to have the key pads replaced. That one is probably out. I could go to a local store that does rent to own on flutes and try several. I think the only thing I'd get from it is that I don know how to play a flute.

Kevin: why don't you like rosewood? That was the model I was looking at in particular and I think it's only $420. Good to know about the "tuning slide" as well. I take it that both flutes can be tuned to a certain degree?

Jon: are you selling any?

Blackwood has smaller pores than rosewood, tends to be a more even texture. Also denser & harder. Of course, there are a variety of rosewoods, of varying specifications.

and yes, the slideless flutes tend to utilize a long tenon suitable for a reasonable amount of tuning.

As for inexpensive student flutes, I think it's best to purchase new, and even then, a good setup by a flute technician can be beneficial to get the most playability out of that price range.

[paddler]

Jon: are you selling any?

I have several flutes that I would be willing to sell. A side effect of my hobby restoring antiques is that I have accumulated more flutes than I can really justify keeping. I have been intending to put some of them up on eBay, but haven't gotten around to it. Plus it seems to be more of a buyers market right now, but thats another story.

Some of the flutes I would be willing to sell for cheap include a couple of German flutes that play well, but are not at A=440, one that plays well and is at A=440, and a no-name English flute that plays very well and is at A=440. All of the above are 8 key flutes, and hence are fully chromatic. I have also been considering selling my keyless Delrin flute with silver rings, made by Dave Copley. It is in perfect condition and it a fabulous player. All of the above will fall well within the price range you allude to. I also have some other very nice restored antiques that would probably be outside your price range.

If you want to come over and take a look just PM me to set up a time. You can try playing some of them, or I can demo some of them in front of you (perhaps with a tuner) and we can see if there is anything that solves your problem.

Cheers!

Jon

[farmerjones]

Jon: PM sent!

[Akiba]

FWIW, I just picked up a used latest edition Casey Burns Folk Flute and I'm really enjoying it. Super comfortable to play, intonation is excellent, can be driven to get a decently honking tone, volume is OK. I'm impressed, and I've tried/owned just about every flute in the $400 range market as well as many C. Burns flutes. This Folk Flute seems to be a keeper.

[Sumaire]

I personally just went thru a similar situation. I'm a classically trained flutist and therefore used to the boehm style flute. Stick with the old style if at all possible. Most Irish music is in the keys of D or G. Irish flutes are in the key of D. Makes playing much easier. No transposing. After lots of research I went antique. Yes I did have to get it restored, but it was well worth the investment. I purchased a Firth, Hall and Pond off of ebay. You should be careful with flutes on ebay. DO NOT buy a Pakistani made flute! In general same goes for the German made antiques and the French made (they can be very pitchy). If you do puchase an antique, I suggest getting ahold of Jon Cornia of Cochran Flutes. He did mine. He does a wonderful job for a reasonable price. Good hunting!