Doubling on flute and pipes: a question

[Pfreddee]

I play Highland pipes as well as flute. I have noticed that I must play my flute first during the day, and the pipes second. If I reverse this order, I find my embouchure is shot all to hell. My tones are very weak and breathy, and I can't seem to stay in one register consistently Are there any other players out there who play both pipes and flute, and who have run into this problem? I'm assuming that the effort to form a seal around the blowstick (I wouldn't dignify the seal as an embouchure) orients certain muscles in ways that are detrimental to forming a real embouchure when I pick up the flute. What are your experiences?

Thank you to all who reply.

With best regards,

Pfreddee(Stephen)

[Steampacket]

I play the flute and also the uilleann pipes so this problem doesn't exist. Have you considered advancing to the uilleann pipes

[Julia Delaney]

Ooh, mean Steamie!! I find that if I play concertina first thing then when I pick up the flute it's much nicer than the other way 'round. Perhaps the bright sound of the concertina wakes up my sleeping music-brain.

[Pfreddee]

I HAD considered the uillean pipes at various times (still do) but I have enough trouble with reeds in my pipes, since I'm moving to an all-cane setup.

With best regards,

Pfreddee(Stephen)

[NicoMoreno]

I used to have trouble playing flute after playing whistle. It's not a problem anymore. Once, not too long ago, I busted out the ol' trumpet and knocked out a couple of scales. Afterwards my flute playing was difficult, but settled in soon after. When I tried this early on in my flute playing, I couldn't play flute for a couple days...

What I'm trying to say is that it sounds like you need to work on strengthening your flute embouchure. After a while you should become more able to switch. You're right that the muscles used for one are interfering with the muscles used for the other, but it will get better as the necessary muscles get stronger.

[MTGuru]

Very interesting thread.

We all know that death grip is something to be avoided. But we usually don't think about death embouchure. And it makes sense that forcing a tight sphincter-like "Oooooh" embouchure when playing whistle or GHB can really tire and strain the muscles and mess up the flute.

Part of the solution is probably the same: relax. For whistle, start with a relaxed, neutral lip expression with the lips flat. A very slight "pout" then gives you all the rounding you need for a good air seal. Then, to combat backpressure, let the cheek muscles do much of the work, and keep the lips more relaxed.

I don't know about GHB, but it might be worth a try. Unless you are playing the song of your people:

[an seanduine]

Thanks "Julia" I hadn't really thought of Thomas as "Steamie" Made my day, it did!
I too play the 'elbow pipes' in addition to the flute. My biggest problem is giving enough time to both, and staying 'on task' for each instrument.
I've played the flute much longer than the pipes, and so have a very set routine for my practicing. I almost always include a daily embouchure routine of exercises and slow airs to get started. Then I find any speed or rhythm work I do on the flute naturally leads me to what I might be trying to accomplish on the pipes.
You can never work too much on your flute embouchure. . .but ya do what ya can. . .

Bob

[Gordon]

...What I'm trying to say is that it sounds like you need to work on strengthening your flute embouchure. After a while you should become more able to switch. You're right that the muscles used for one are interfering with the muscles used for the other, but it will get better as the necessary muscles get stronger.

Probably right - the number of sax players that double as flute players is huge and, while not the same thing as Highland pipes to flute, I think it addresses the same thing. Strengthen the flute embouchure, and it won't be affected by whatever else you do, before or after.

[Harry]

Easy fix: get bellows.

[psychodonald]

I play both. It certainly must use a different set of muscles. I've always played the flute first for two reasons:
1. the flute is easier to assemble and get to playing; and
2. I'm sure you may have experienced this, with the pipes, if you don't practice/ play on a regular basis, the muscles used to seal around the blow pipe become weak quickly and a person experiences "blow out," at least that is what it is called in my neck of the woods. You know, when the muscles give out and a piper can't keep a tight seal around the blow pipe, air leaks out around the corners of the mouth and you can't get the bag full. The only solution when that happens is to put the pipes away and let the lips rest.
I would suspect that the muscles, after playing the pipes, are fatigued-- making it difficult to form and maintain a good embouchure. However, I have been playing the flute one day and the pipes the next for the past couple of years, giving the muscles time to relax. Seems to work a little better for me. Oh, and another thing, I've purchased an ergonomic blow pipe stem, one that is kind of oval rather than completely round--that also seems to make a difference.