A comparison between Blackwood and Cocuswood

[Jon C.]

Here is my latest chunk of cocuswood...


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I love to turn this stuff, it is the most stable wood that I have turned. As far as density, Mopane would be considered furniture wood compared to Cocuswood, especially to porosity of the wood. Not saying that Mopane is not a great wood for flutes, it just is not in the same league...
This is the most stable of woods, I use it for repairs of antiques, it is able to be turned thin for socket repairs. Most of the antiques that I have had in the shop were not true Cocuswood, but a form of brown ebony. This type of ebony is susceptible to cracking and surface checking, not with the Jamaican or Cuban Cocuswood. I imagine they were substituting woods like Madagascar ebony and calling it cocuswood or coco (brown) wood. You can smell the different woods, the ebony smells like dirty gym socks. I have found the two woods intermixed in the flute, like the maker didn't know the difference...
As far as quality of the cocuswood grains, here is a photo of modern cocuswood and a upper section of a Firth & Pond flute from mid 19th century.


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To bad that it is not available, I am like the Hunt Brothers buying up all the stock...

[Casey Burns]

Jon,

I profoundly disagree! Mopane is definitely in the same league, if not a superior wood to cocus! Having made hundreds of flutes from it, I've been able to compare it with all others. Its density is perfect (2 pounds per cubic foot lighter than blackwood), its crosslinked grain makes it resistant to checking and cracking, its not a wood that gives blisters to some, its still available, its not a rare tree - its found all over East Africa whereas Cocus is from a few islands in the Caribbean. Flutes made from Mopane speak well, play well, and sound great. The wood looks great as well.

For these many reasons I prefer Mopane over Cocus.

Casey

[Rob Sharer]

Wow....you can't both be right. Looks like we need some more makers to chime in, maybe a separate thread....



Rob

[LorenzoFlute]

Damn it Jon
And about cocuswood vs blackwood?

[Casey Burns]

Rob,

I noted the other thread.

I always get a little touchy when other makers who may or may not have much experience with Mopane start bashing it. It came to the rescue for me during a shortage in blackwood, and I've built up one of my flute models around it - and stake my reputation and 29 years of being a flute maker on it by insisting that it is a superior flute wood.

Thus when someone declares that all it is good for is furniture, I feel a little bit slighted.

We are not amused.

Casey



(PS Gotta go catch a flight. Will be offline until Monday.....)

[Rob Sharer]

Fair enough! I have to say, I know absolutely nothing about Mopane, save that I may have played one of your flutes made in it once or twice. We'll see how the other thread goes, anyway.

Cheers,

Rob

[radcliff]

In particular I have a question for you: Is blackwood louder, while cocuswood more round, flexible and mellow?

IMHO...
About Loudness I think it is not matter of woods.
Also Loudness could a very relative concept, try to use a D fife in a session, and you'll be heard by every one.
So just turn up the tunes on your flute from 1' & 2' octave to 2' & 3' and you'll very loud!

By the way "mellow" would be more suitable to blackwood than to real cocus.

Jon has got my point: we call blackwood a certain numbers of different ebony quality
while we call Cocus a huge quantity of different woods...

[Jon C.]

Damn it Jon
And about cocuswood vs blackwood?

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

I think cocuswood would make a brighter, chirpier tone, (more chiff) then Blackwood. I have seen different grades of Blackwood, like was mentioned earlier. I will say at this time, I love Blackwood, but it is kind of messy to turn. I also want to say that I love Mopane, even if it is not as good as Cocuswood...

[Jon C.]

Rob,

I noted the other thread.

I always get a little touchy when other makers who may or may not have much experience with Mopane start bashing it. It came to the rescue for me during a shortage in blackwood, and I've built up one of my flute models around it - and stake my reputation and 29 years of being a flute maker on it by insisting that it is a superior flute wood.

Thus when someone declares that all it is good for is furniture, I feel a little bit slighted.

We are not amused.

Casey



(PS Gotta go catch a flight. Will be offline until Monday.....)

What part of "Not saying that Mopane is not a great wood for flutes, it just is not in the same league..." do you not understand?

[sturob]

OMG I love this topic! Wow! It's back AGAIN!

I have to say that one thing is certainly clear to me . . . our expectations of difference in sound REALLY color our impressions of the timbers. And their timbres.

I can't help but think that the relative dimensional stability of blackwood, in addition to its superoiliness, make that timber ideal for wooden flutage.

Cocus (especially unstained) is a lot nicer-looking than blackwood. Flamed boxwood is too. If you think there's magic in a cocus instrument, there is, and no one can "prove" otherwise. If you think mopane is furniture wood, it'll probably be difficult to dissuade you.

That's the great thing about this discussion: there's not going to be a definitive answer. Me, I like timber. I know people who are perfectly happy with everything being blackwood. I know people enamored with boxwood. I like them all, and like variety.

So barring the aforementioned tests (which would necessarily involve blinding everyone, despite what anyone says to the contrary), which are impossible to perform without someone programming some robot to make all the instruments (which in an of itself robs a flute of some of it's je-ne-sais-quoi) . . . can't there be some mystery and wonder?

Stuart

[eilam]

nice to see you back stuart !
still have that amazing looking boxwood olwell?

[sturob]

Yes I do!

I'd have to change my avatar if I didn't.

Stuart

[eilam]

have you had it keyed by now?

[sturob]

It always was keyed.

6 keys, not 8.

Stuart