Flute for Beginner: Dixon 3-piece or Tipple?

[Akiba]

Hi KeithS,

It seems to me that your opinion on this issue is suspiciously naive and misinformed. I'll admit I'm not the expert. So let's take a look at the top experts in the field of making the finest simple system flutes, for Irish music or otherwise. Olwell, Wilkes, Doyle, our own Casey Burns and Mr. Holmes--I believe none of them make a flute out of anything but wood. Don't you think that if they could find a cheaper, more indestructible, lower-maintenance material that performed/sounded/played just as well as wood, they would use it? Other makers make a few delrin flutes, Hammy and our own Terry McGee, but only as a concession, not as their main choice, which is wood. And what about the baroque/traverso makers? Take a look at all this evidence and tell me what you find. Also, top players care more about sound/tone and performance--if plastic was so great, a far greater number of players would be using it. As it is, almost none do. Tom Doorley of Danu used to play a delrin Seery but now, I believe plays a wood Olwell. It's not just tradition or prejudice; I believe one could say it is a fact.

[talasiga]

I think arguments based per se on material only tend to fatuos - oops I mean fatuous.

Lets take two "plastic" flutes .
A Tipple flute and a professional McGee flute of delrin.
The two are are not parable IMO.

Look at what Terry McGee says about his plastic flutes - see under "polymer":-
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/materials.htm

They are as expensive as his wooden equivalents and as good as them in his opinion.
The price (cheapness or not) has little to do with material but more to do with workmanship - the making of the embouchure, the tone hole, the bore and other things.

[keithsandra]

Akiba:

Your argument is so illogical I'm embarrassed.

"It's called "Argumentum ad populum" – a logical fallacy in which a statement is assumed true because you or even most people believe it to be true; e.g.:

"All these good people only make wooden flutes -
"Therefore only wooden flutes are any good ..."

or:

"Most people assume wooden flutes are better than flutes made in any other material no matter how good the maker of the non wooden flute is or how good the non wooden flute is ...

"Therefore only wooden flutes are any good, no matter who makes them or how good or bad the non wooden flute is."

Strewth.

[Akiba]

I get your point, Keith. But you have zero evidence on your side. And my argument is more solid than you portray. I think you're the one embarrassed by your weak assertions that have little weight. I'll stake my claim on Olwell and all the top makers and all the top players and my own experience. How much experience do you have with simple system flutes anyways? How good of a player are you? What are your credentials? Do they out-trump all the makers and players who swear by wood as the top material?

[jvann]

So, what do you guys think? Dixon 3 piece or Tipple?

[jlfinkels]

So, what do you guys think? Dixon 3 piece or Tipple?

At the risk of entering the fray, I'll say as a fairly recent noob myself I started on a Tipple and have since purchased much more expensive instruments. I've also owned and played Dixon 3 piece flutes, and liked them as well.

I agree with your earlier post that you can't go wrong with a Tipple. It was a good instrument for me to start on and decide whether I had the ability and desire to stick with the flute before investing more money. It fit my budget at the time and has been a good one to develop technique on. In my simplistic opinion, for the money I don't see how a beginner can go wrong.

--jeff

[Akiba]

Highjacking---guilty as charged .

[Doc Jones]

Just for the record. The flute makers I've spoken with generally speak poorly of delrin not because of the final result but because it's a pain to work with. Flute makers are wood workers. Thye don't like working in plastic. I suspect that has as much to do with it as anything. Pat Olwell made one special order flute in delrin that I know of. Said he absolutely hated working the stuff. From all reports it was a great flute.

That said, I do think wood sounds better. When I play the same flutes (maker, model, embouchure cut) I can definitely hear and feel a difference. Interestingly, my wife can't tell the difference from 10 feet away.

The acoustic differences are probably over-blown (no pun intended) but there is something wonderful about wood.

Sorry for the re-rail of the de-rail. Go buy a TIpple or a Hammy Practice flute or a Dixon. Or spend a few more bucks (than the Dixon) and Get a Copley delrin or a Forbes or an M&E or...or...or...

Just get sumpin' and start tooting. You'll be buying another flute later. No sense fretting about the first one. Any of those three would be great.

Doc

[doktor73]

Hi!

A few days ago I tried the Hamilton, but I am disappointed: My cheap Dixon one-piece Low D have a more "full" and "broad" sound that sounds more "Irish" in my opinion...
What do YOU think about the cheap Dixon one-piece Low D considering it to the Hamilton?
The Hammy seems to sound quietly, a little bit "boring", and without any "honk" - which I like at my Dixon one-piece, but the Dixon is more difficult to play I think...

Hmm, when I like the SOUND of the Dixon (warm, "rough", sometimes like a "honk of a big ship"), maybe the Tipple would be the better choice?
Or the 3-piece Low D from Dixon? What about THIS one comparing it to the Hamilton concerning the sound?

[Latticino]

As a relative beginner it will be very difficult for you to properly evaluate a flute, particularly after only a short time auditioning one. Each different instrument requires an adjustment to your embochure, and sometimes fingering, to give its fullest sound. While I haven't personally tried a Hamilton practice flute, he is pretty well known for making a flute that can really "honk", much of which is related to the embochure cut. It is possible you just didn't give it enough of a trial.

I had a similar experience the first time I tried a McGee GLP. At the time I found the sound to be quite veiled and thought that it didn't measure up to the M&E that I was currently using. Now I play an antique that could be the model Terry used to design the GLP, and prefer it to the Pratten and Hawks style flutes I also own.

It also may be that you are now used to the sound from a cylindrical flute (as well as the air requirements), and prefer it. If so, you will surely be pleased with one of Doug's flutes, as by all acounts they are an upgrade on the Dixon 1-piece.

[doktor73]

It also may be that you are now used to the sound from a cylindrical flute (as well as the air requirements), and prefer it. If so, you will surely be pleased with one of Doug's flutes, as by all acounts they are an upgrade on the Dixon 1-piece.

Hmm, the Hamilton is not a cylindrical flute but a flute with a tapered bore, isn't it?
So what about the Tipple Wedge?
And what about the 3-piece Low-D from Dixon - would it be a worse choice comparing it to the Tipple?

[Jim_B1]

I'm kind of late to the party but I can say my Dixon 3 piece polymer is a very good player and Bill Ochs played it at one point and thought it was a good beginning flute so I'm not going on my own middling skills on this one.
Of course mine is something like 8 years old now and Tony Dixon may have changed the design a little but all the pics on his site look similar to mine.

I haven't tried a Tipple yet but I have heard it played on some videos and sound clips and it seems to be a good instrument as well.

The only thing I would have a concern with is the hand stretch on the Tipple. The conical shape of the Dixon helps with the comfort and it has fairly small holes compared to what Doug has on his site. I think that translates to the Tipple being louder but the Dixon being easier to finger for a beginner. But again, no actual experience with the Tipple and sometimes specs on paper don't accurately reflect how it is in your hands.

Hope this helps some...

[Latticino]

Hmm, the Hamilton is not a cylindrical flute but a flute with a tapered bore, isn't it?
So what about the Tipple Wedge?
And what about the 3-piece Low-D from Dixon - would it be a worse choice comparing it to the Tipple?

Arrgh, good catch. I think the Hamilton practice flute is also an essentially cylindrical flute (but with a smaller bore and tapered headjoint?)

Lets just ignore my previous post altogether...

[chansherly212]

you know, contrary to the popular opinion that the tipple has uncomfortable hand stretch, i actually find it okay, (i bought mine a just few months ago, so i don't know if the hand stretch is any different on his older ones) and i have SMALL hands (i can barely span more than an octave on a piano), but its ok for me, holes are big (but still coverable), and after awhile, i have these faint impressions on my fingers after i play. hand stretch wise, i actually find the right hand stretch slightly better than my dixon low D, which is already pretty easy on the hands, i use the piper grip on the right hand, so it might just be no problem for you.

[Doug_Tipple]

Having a choice is both good and bad. I enjoy the big stores or online stores with lots of choices, although having so many choices makes selection more problematic. I lived for several years in a very small town in the southwestern desert. There were only two stores in town, the bar and the general store. Shopping for food was a simple matter, because Tony didn't have all that much to choose from: canned meat, canned soup, canned vegetables, and some fresh meat of questionable age. I didn't worry about it, just accepted the reality. Dinty Moore Beef stew from a can was a favorite, I remember. Telephone service was much simpler then, as opposed to our present cell-phone complexity. We rented a black corded phone from Ma Bell. In my childhood home the telephone was firmly anchored on a telephone shelf in the living room. There was no way that I was going to ask a girl for a date and have to do it in front of my parents and brothers.Kids now have it made in that regard, anyway.