Interesting Find: Old Irish Flute

[L42B]

Hey Guys,

This evening my friends gave me an old Irish Flute, which I suspect is in the key of Eb. Due to the fact that it looks smaller then a modern concert D flute. It looks quiet old, I suspect that it could well be over 80 years old. I will post photo's later for those keen to identify who the maker could be. But for the meantime, I'll give a bit of a description for you.

My friends has a tendency to collect old/odd instruments. His brother-in-law came across the flute in a second-hand store and brought it for him. My friend hasn't been able to get it to work because the head-joint I suspect may need some renovation work.

For the age of the instrument the wood is nicely turned, there is a bit of a dent on the sixth hole, and only one key at the bottom of the flute body. I suspect that it is an Fn key.

Any help in identifying the maker would be appreciated, including any assistance to get this flute to work.

Cheers L42B
PS: For those who don't know me on this forum, I play Uilleann Pipes, GHBs, and Irish Whistles.

[ Moderator's Note: Corrected thread title, Whistle -> Flute. ]

[L42B]

Here are the photo's. I don't know how to resize them so unfortunately they are 1600X1200. Feel free to resize and repost if you are concerned about bandwidth.





Cheers L42B

[Gabriel]

For me, that flute looks too small to be an Eb one. I'd guess that it plays at F (possibily high pitched) or even higher. The key gives the note half a step above the fundamental note the flute gives. The turning reminds me of some later Potter band flutes I saw at various places, but if there's no maker's mark it'll be dificult to find out who made it. It also seems that there has been quite some tinkering with the holes.

[L42B]

Thanks Gabriel, would you know of any good makers who I could send it to, so that they could look at it and repair it? Especially if they are interested in older flutes.

Cheers L42B

[I.D.10-t]

Terry McGee's Guide to the lengths of flutes might be useful.

[Cathy Wilde]

And Terry happens to be in Australia AND he seems to like to restore flutes.

[Cathy Wilde]

Speaking of ... here's a flute in his collection that looks kinda like yours (only a LOT smaller )!



For a description go to his site and look up Flute Research Collection; it's the second flute down.

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/collection.html

[L42B]

Well, I spoke to Terry McGee on the phone just then. He believes that it is a Blackman flute, probably in Bb or in F. Which probably puts this instrument at 150 years old or so. As Gabriel stated the instrument is a band flute.

I'm curious if we could trace its history somehow. But I highly doubt it as the instrument was found in a second-hand store.

I'll keep you posted as to developments. Now however it must be renovated.

Cheers L42B

[jemtheflute]

You're talking to the right guy, for sure.....
Just a simple pointer, if it is in the 14-15.5" (35-40cm) overall length range, it is a Bb band flute (which is what it looks like to me, by comparison with things like hands in your pictures and from the fact it has a single body piece - most F flutes have two....). If it is under 15" it will almost certainly be High Pitch and, as such, of little use in ensemble (unless you happen to have a HP band near you!!!!!!) even if it turns out to be a really nice player on its own. 15" plus and it may play at A=440, but these two-piece ones without a tuning slide rarely do, in my experience. To be an F band flute (unlikely, I'd say) it would have to come in the 19-20+" (48-52cm) range overall length and be nearer 20" to have much chance of not being HP.

Also FWIW, the vast majority of these later C19th band flutes are anonymous - may have been churned out by known makers who didn't bother to stamp their lower range models (no tuning slide etc.) or made by lesser makers who specialised in making them cheaply for the military band market. Coming from a junk shop, I'd say you haven't a hope in hell of provenancing it. It does look typically English, though - fruits/legacy of empire and all that!

I hope it turns out well for you.

[L42B]

Some of the not so expensive models of Blackman where not marked. Terry did mention this. Terry is very certain that the instrument was made sometime between 1810-1830 or 'round about's. The only way we will be able to tell for certain is the measurements of the flute and then Terry can make a more reliable guess as to who made the flute and when it might have been made. Due to Mr McGee's workload at present, we probably won't know this information for at least a few months.

South Australia was a free settler colony. So the instrument could have come over with a military band or individual. Although the fact that it is a band flute, suggests it came out with the military. Perhaps even with the original fleet. It would surprise me if an individual brought a higher register flute to play in a folk setting. Sadly though we'll probably never know the flutes history due to the nature in which it was found.

Cheers L42B

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

I have both a fife (four key) and piccolo (six) that look like those, brown cocus and the little swelling in the wood of the headjoint; both built by Mr. "Improved" of London. Terry has a six key fife on his collection page which he praises; mine are nice players too, although I had to take off the fife's Eb key - no room for the RH ring finger; and the piccolo needs a bit of metal tube in the end of the bore to lower the pitch of the bottom D.

Forget how close to modern B/Bb the fife is. Mostly I play a Cloos fife for fun, don't know anybody who wants to tune down to Bb, which is regretful as I have two full sets of Irish pipes in that pitch...

[Jon C.]

Some of the not so expensive models of Blackman where not marked. Terry did mention this. Terry is very certain that the instrument was made sometime between 1810-1830 or 'round about's. The only way we will be able to tell for certain is the measurements of the flute and then Terry can make a more reliable guess as to who made the flute and when it might have been made. Due to Mr McGee's workload at present, we probably won't know this information for at least a few months.

South Australia was a free settler colony. So the instrument could have come over with a military band or individual. Although the fact that it is a band flute, suggests it came out with the military. Perhaps even with the original fleet. It would surprise me if an individual brought a higher register flute to play in a folk setting. Sadly though we'll probably never know the flutes history due to the nature in which it was found.

Cheers L42B

Could also be a BS Dulcet, I had one in my shop once that looked just like this. BS Dulcet made military flutes about the same time.

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

Just got a vinyl copy of Fintan Vallely's old Shanachie LP; I see that he plays/played a Blackman which his cousin found in a junk shop; "keyless now and often held together with hoseclips at the headjoint." Doesn't look to be sporting the headclips in the pictures though; maybe they were taken off for the photo shoot? That flute doesn't have the characteristic swelling at the base of the head like the fifes/piccolos of Terry's and mine, either, rather a more typical 8 key cylindrical shape, like this one: DCM 1161: Blackman / Flute in C. DCM also has this "band flute" with this head shape: DCM 1598: Anonymous / Band Flute in A-flat (B-flat). They make a definite distinction between "fife" (cylindrical bore, usually keyless) and "band flute" (conical, usually keys) though, and there are only 4 examples of the latter given. Other short flutes might be listed simply as "Flute in C."

[rama]

i have a blackman fife which shares same characteristics as the flute in question.