A Keyed-Flute With a Comfortable Reach for Smaller Hands?

[MJ1619]

Hey everybody,

I have a suspicion that this question has been asked before but since I cannot find the thread, I will ask it here. Are there any current makers that make a smaller keyed-flute in D (smaller meaning easier to hold/handle, perhaps like the one used by Mr. Larsen) that still has a rich, full tone and is easy to fill and control up through the third octave?

Thanks,

Michael

P.S. I've been looking at Dominic Allan's Series 1 keyed flutes? I'd really like to hear opinions about these flutes and their maker, so if anybody has any insights, please let me know.

[Cork]

Hey everybody,

I have a suspicion that this question has been asked before but since I cannot find the thread, I will ask it here. Are there any current makers that make a smaller keyed-flute in D (smaller meaning easier to hold/handle, perhaps like the one used by Mr. Larsen) that still has a rich, full tone and is easy to fill and control up through the third octave?

Thanks,

Michael

P.S. I've been looking at Dominic Allan's Series 1 keyed flutes? I'd really like to hear opinions about these flutes and their maker, so if anybody has any insights, please let me know.

I'm not so sure as to how to interpret your question, but let me see if I could offer something.

First, it seems as though you're looking for 1) a "smaller" D flute, 2) a keyed flute, where I assume you mean a chromatic flute, and 3) a flute which has a three octave range. Well, perhaps an obvious solution could be to go with one of Terry McGee's Grey Larsen Preferred models, which seems to fit the description you mentioned, although I don't know if it could have a three octave range, but I suspect that it could.

As far as one-key flutes go, yes, they typically do have smaller holes, but they really are a specialty instrument, one which might not satisfy your needs.

If I've made any incorrect assumptions, then please say so. Perhaps then we could fine tune the solution.

:-)

[hans]

I've got an eight-key flute made by Dominic Allan, his S1 model.
It is my main flute, plays well, beautiful tone, great keywork and ergonomic design. Dominic was easy to communicate with, and he made quite a few custom changes regards key positions. Anyway, I love this flute and can only recommend the maker.

I don't know if I would call this flute small. The tone holes are a little bit smaller. The length is of course the same as other D flutes with long foot joint. The weight is probably average, it is not the lightest. The sound is not small at all, it can be played loud and has good projection. The price for an eight key is very good, especially if you live in the UK or Europe.

If you have very small hands you would perhaps need special arrangements for some tone holes to reduce the finger stretch. You need to talk with the maker about this.

Cheers,
~Hans

[hans]

If I've made any incorrect assumptions, then please say so.

Only that a "Dominic Allan's Series 1 keyed flute" is typically a "Series 1" eight key flute. Series 1 refers to a slightly smaller holed flute model (hole 5 is 9mm) Dominic developed from some French original, I think.

Here is a link to some pics of my flute:
http://softflute.co.uk/go/Instruments/AllanFlute

~Hans

[Cork]

If I've made any incorrect assumptions, then please say so.

Only that a "Dominic Allan's Series 1 keyed flute" is typically a "Series 1" eight key flute. Series 1 refers to a slightly smaller holed flute model (hole 5 is 9mm) Dominic developed from some French original, I think.

Here is a link to some pics of my flute:
http://softflute.co.uk/go/Instruments/AllanFlute

~Hans

Well, live and learn! My not being familiar with Dominic Allen flutes, I interpreted the meaning as "one-key" flute.

Now, if hole five could be 9mm on the DA flute, then it might be hard to find a smaller holed flute.

However, I'd still suggest the McGee GLP model, as it seems to meet the requirements of the OP.

Thanks, Hans!

[MJ1619]

Hello everyone,

I apologize for not being more specific or clear in my question. I have what I would call medium-sized hands (8" span from thumb-tip to pinky-tip) and have noticed that I sometimes have difficulty in managing larger flutes. It is not that I cannot cover the tone holes properly, I can, but somehow the span between or placement of the tone holes is such that my hands tire quickly trying to hold the instrument and reach all the holes. I do not think it is my grip. I've tried to adjust that many times. I don't use piper's grip, but rather curve my finger's around the instrument. Maybe I should try piper's, but I just wanted to know (since I am looking for an 8 keyed-flute) that I might try to find one that might be more ergonomic/better-suited for my hands.

Thanks again,

Michael

P.S. Thank you for the advice about Dominic Allan's instruments. They really look and sound beautiful. I am sure that Allan is also a wonderful maker with whom to do business.

[crookedtune]

How long have you been at it? An 8" span is very normal for a male hand. There is no need for a special flute or piper's grip, unless you happen to prefer them for reasons of your own. You might be surprised to find that with time and practice, you'll gain the control and comfort you're after.

Stretch a bit, play your flute, listen a whole lot, and play some more. Anyway, the biggest challenges don't lie in the hands.

[Cork]

Here's a flute maker, who specializes in "smaller" hands: http://www.caseyburnsflutes.com/

CB makes a great flute!

[MJ1619]

crookedtune,

I've been at it (regularly) for about a year. My embouchure, intonation, and breathing have all improved (at least I have noticed marked improvement). I am by no means good. I'm somewhere between being a beginner and being a competent player. The one continuing problem seems to be that my hands tire from holding the instrument. I am using a Copeland keyless (based on a Prowse) so it's not the biggest or the heaviest flute out there.

I am going to try to modify my body posture to see if that helps. I typically sit when I play, with my center of mass leaning slightly forward, back and head straight (preventing the chest from collapsing and allowing me to get the largest reservoir of air possible) flute parallel to floor, and chin-up (almost parallel to the floor so I don't collapse my windway). I picked this posture by studying professional classical flautists (several friends of mine). Maybe it is the wrong posture for me. If you guys have any suggestions, let me know.

Michael

[Cork]

@ Michael

So far, it seems that you're onto some good techniques, but in addition to keeping your head up and neck straight, let me offer another technique.

For a couple of important reasons, you want to keep your hands directly in front of you. This has to do with the most relaxed breathing position, shoulders square and relaxed, and with the best way to help reduce any tension in your arms, and therefore in your fingers. After all, relaxed fingers are fast fingers. So, if you're a right handed player, keep your head up and your neck straight, and then turn your head to the left, while keeping your hands directly in front of you.

There are many little tricks to playing a flute, and keeping your hands in front of you is one of those little tricks.

[Hoovorff]

My John Gallagher Rudall flute has smaller tone holes, and six keys. The reach is very easy. In fact, he angled the tone holes to make them even more closely spaced. I think my hands have about a 7-inch spread. It gets a very full tone into the third octave. I believe it's modeled after an 1820s or 30s smaller-holed Rudall. I can't handle larger holed flutes because my fingers fall into the holes....

Jeanie

[jim stone]

There is nothing at all the matter with playing small-holed flutes, of course.
Even people with big hands sometimes prefer them for their
ease of handling and tonal properties.

Bryan Byrne is making a small-holed Rudall, also a medium-holed
Rudall. He is making keys too, but I don't know if he makes more than 6 keys.

Also Rod Cameron is making small-holed copies of Rudalls. He made
one for Chris Norman. I do think these have 8 keys, some of them.

These will sound beautiful, but they won't sound like larger bore flutes.
Focused, not big and open.

[dow]

Cork offers good advice on many subjects. In this case, he's spot on about posture as well as the recommendation of the McGee GLP. I play a keyless one, as well as it's great grandaddy, a William Hall and Son six-key from the 1850's. You should find either configuration an easy player, as far as the hands are concerned.

However, with that said, I've been fighting with the darned things (flutes) for about 4-1/2 years (WOW! How'd that happen), and my hands still cramp occasionally. Usually it happens if I've been missing practice time for a few days and then go and play for an hour or two. I find that as long as I play daily, the flute is easy to hold and my hands don't hurt at all. On the other hand, if I lay off for a few days, I tend to get that "death grip" thing going, and my hands really hurt, especially the muscles at the base of the thumb and palm on my left hand. Usually, about the time I quit for the night, I remember that I don't have to hold on that tight .

Hope this helps.

Oh, and do get in touch with Terry McGee. Great fellow, and a heck of a flute maker. You can find him here: http://www.mcgee-flutes.com.

Good luck!

[Cork]

Cork offers good advice on many subjects. In this case, he's spot on about posture...

Speaking of posture, believe it or not there's actually a complete, head to toe, "proper" posture by which a transverse flute gets played.

It was discovered way back in the Baroque era, if not earlier, and has yet to be improved on, since then.

And no, I'm not going into the details of it, here, in part because there seem to be those on this board who might not believe it, no matter how true.

Thanks, dow!

:-)

[hans]

Well, live and learn! My not being familiar with Dominic Allen flutes, I interpreted the meaning as "one-key" flute.

Now, if hole five could be 9mm on the DA flute, then it might be hard to find a smaller holed flute.

However, I'd still suggest the McGee GLP model, as it seems to meet the requirements of the OP.

9mm for hole 5 is small but not really that small!

See these hole 5 sizes (from Terry McGee's website)
Pratten's Perfected (1852 ->) 11mm
Large Rudall & Rose (1821 ->) 10-11 mm
Medium Rudall & Rose (1821 ->) 9-10mm
Small Rudall & Rose (1821 ->) 8mm
William Henry Potter (1806-37) 7.5mm
Rudall, Willis Fecit (1821) 7.4mm
Firth, Pond & Co (1847-63) 7.25mm
Typical French and German flutes ~ 6mm

Cork - I don't understand how you can recommend a McGee GLP over a Dominic Allan S1 flute, as you had no experience with the latter (and i don't know what experience with the GLP). I only mentioned my Allan flute, because the OP said he looked at such and wanted more info. Dominic Allan is not a big name maker on this board, but there is no reason to dismiss his work out of hand. His craftsmanship is superb, and he will bend over backwards to fulfil special requests, he is very approachable. Probably all flute makers would try to accommodate special wishes, like offsetting tone holes 3 and 6 for easier fingering for smaller hands, one just needs to ask.

Michael - perhaps lightness of the flute is an issue for you. But an eight key wooden flute is never the lightest, from whatever maker. Restricting the choice to a short-footed six key flute may make a difference. Going for an Eb flute is another, that's what i would call a smaller flute, but then you are out of standard flute playing.

Cheers,
~Hans