Pointing in the right direction

[Rhadge]

Hello. Complete newbie, coming from whistle.

I just want to be sure that I don't make mistakes in my first months, that I have to spend years to correct afterwards.
Can I experiment freely with embouchure, just like when learning to whistle with my mouth, or should I learn a "correct" (quotation marks since I know there are several) embouchure from the beginning?

[Henke]

You can and should experiment freely with embouchure if you ask me. IMO, embouchure is something that cannot be taught. Experienced people can give you pointers and stuff to try, but in the end it's something you will have to learn for yourself what works and doesn't work for you. Your embouchure once developed will be completely unique, because your lips and mouth are unique.

Here's a tip from me, learning embouchure usually works best after a couple of drams of
whisky

[Rhadge]

Thanks. I was actually expecting something like that, having read previous threads. Just wanted to confirm it.

Here's a tip from me, learning embouchure usually works best after a couple of drams of
whisky

I think that would lead to one of those "can only play when drunk" cases.

[Gabriel]

Henke is spot on with that. Basically you have to focus an air stream onto the far edge of the embouchure hole. How you do that and to find out which angle of the stream and headjoint work best for you is up to you.

And a learning hint from me: don't overdo embouchure work at the beginning, it tends to be very frustrating sometimes, i.e. you know how you want to sound, but you can't do it. It will come with time.

[Rhadge]

And a learning hint from me: don't overdo embouchure work at the beginning, it tends to be very frustrating sometimes, i.e. you know how you want to sound, but you can't do it. It will come with time.

That's interesting. So the recommendation is just to keep on playing, and embouchure will come automatically?
Sounds too good to be true. Not saying that it isn't true though, just figure of speech.

[Cathy Wilde]

Sounds to good to be true.

Nope. It's more a process of playing 5 bazillion hours and weeding out what sounds too bad to be bearable.

[johnkerr]

Can I experiment freely with embouchure, just like when learning to whistle with my mouth, or should I learn a "correct" (quotation marks since I know there are several) embouchure from the beginning?

The "correct" embouchure for a flute player is the embouchure that produces the sound that the flute player wants to produce. Every flute player's facial anatomy is different, so necessarily their "correct" embouchure will also be different. So yes, you must experiment in order to find your correct embouchure. Listen to yourself as you play. Record yourself and play it back. Use your ears to get feedback, and adjust your lips accordingly to make your sound better. Once you find the sound you want, train yourself to repeat it. It's a never-ending process throughout the life of any flute player.

[Carey]

It's just like learning to whistle. First you make some sound and are thrilled at that. Then you notice other's making nicer sounds so you are frustrated with your sound, so you keep working on that (which never ends by the way, so get used to it.) At some point you will only be able to play if you keep as still as a statue, and you'll wonder how those others can look all around, bob in time to the music and even get up out of their chair while still playing! Then you wish you could make it all the way through the phrase and notice others are able to play two without a breath. Then the first octave will be OK, but you'll cringe at the 2nd octave A and B. For a while. All these things are muscle memory and don't have conscious thought involved, so all you can do is play, play, play. Eventually you will be using less air than you do on your whistle. I know it seems impossible now, but it's true. So try not to get frustrated with what's not happening, and enjoy what is working. If you get down with your lack of progress, hand the flute to someone to try and you'll see how far you've come.

Oh, and it's good fun to record yourself every week or so to listen to later on and compare for progress. You'll be surprised how different you sound.

[celticmodes]

What about the first day that all the planets align and you finally get that reedy, sharp, focused sound you've been searching for on at least 3 notes. Isn't that great?!?!

Imagine your surprise the next day when the planets fall out of alignment and you sound like and old teapot.....scratch that...the teapot sounds better.

Just keep playing I'm a perpetual beginner and I find that there are no shortcuts to building a relationship (i.e. countless hours of practice) with an instrument. The rewards will sneak up on you so don't worry too much about when it will happen.

[Rhadge]

What about the first day that all the planets align and you finally get that reedy, sharp, focused sound you've been searching for on at least 3 notes. Isn't that great?!?!

Imagine your surprise the next day when the planets fall out of alignment and you sound like and old teapot.....scratch that...the teapot sounds better.

I will have to check with NASA to see when I should be playing then.

I had a really good experience yesterday. I managed to make a TONE out of the flute! Big step forward, and I already enjoy it. It's almost more fun playing one tone with the flute, than a whole tune with the whistle. Speaking of teapots...

Anywho, I find it a good thing that embouchure technique doesn't have to be thought of that much, just something that comes naturally with time. One less thing to think about, so one can concentrate on the music (or something that's not too far off).

[jim stone]

If you can arrange a lesson or two with a teacher, it can certainly save you trouble later.
Not necessarily about embouchure, though probably a teacher can be of some use there,
but there are plenty of issues that can arise just
holding the thing, for instance. You don't need lots of lessons.

I think Grey Larsen's book can be of some use to you about embouchure
and other matters too.

[Cork]

Sounds to good to be true.

Nope. It's more a process of playing 5 bazillion hours and weeding out what sounds too bad to be bearable. :lol:

+1

Yeah, that about says it all.

And, do feel free to experiment with your embouchure, all you wish!

In the beginning, the first objective is to get the flute to play in tune, beginning with getting just one tone in tune (suggestion: use a tuning fork or an electronic pitch as a reference, and then "match" the tuning of one tone of your flute to that reference), and then in getting all of the other tones in tune, too, one at a time, and to the point where they then are all in tune with each other.

BTW, that could keep you busy, for quite some while!

Achieving a certain "tone", or "sound", comes later, but the good news is that in getting the flute into correct tune first, the lessons learned in doing that will then easily lead to a control of "tone".

So, get the flute tuned up first, and, by that effort, tone will soon follow.

Now, could it be a bazillion, or a gazillion?

;-)

[Flutered]

... Once you find the sound you want, train yourself to repeat it. It's a never-ending process throughout the life of any flute player.

This is the tricky bit and you may as well be aware of it as you set out One of those frustrating but compulsive aspects of flute playing - you always know you can do better. You need to be a bit stubborn - and prepared not to give up when things are down. Otherwise take up accordion or piano or something like that.

[Rhadge]

Cork:

Thanks for the tuning tip, I never thought of that.
I tried playing in front of a tuner now, and it's 10-20 cents too sharp for low D. I take it I must change the direction of air, rather than how hard I blow, to adjust tuning? Because even if I blow as weak as I can, it's still pretty sharp.


Luckily, I have guitar as my main instrument. I will spend some time each day with the flute, and sooner or later I will improve. I can afford to be patient.

[Guinness]

I just want to be sure that I don't make mistakes in my first months, that I have to spend years to correct afterwards.

Well, you will make mistakes and you will spend years correcting. (The glass is half empty.)
But you will enjoy the challenge and every opportunity to practice is an opportunity to improve. (The glass is half full.)

IMHO, elements of embouchure technique can indeed be taught (and learned), but it's little a bit like giving pointers about walking and cycling. There's clearly a large element of trial and error.