M&E flutes made in Pakistan? No. Wrong.

[Jon C.]

I think because Delrin is really hard to work.

Not to be picking nits or anything but delrin is a real treat to work with and I believe Michael uses a PVC or ABS polymer for his flutes(please, correct me if you know better). I have three M&E's. The finish detailing is wildly different on each but they play equally well. That certainly supports the "handmade" aspect in my mind. "M" and "E" are both nice people to deal with.

Feadoggie

It is PVC turned from solid stock, not ABS.

[fearfaoin]

Of course that's a long time ago and Michael could be using an entirely different polymer now. I have no idea where I thought ABS might have come into it. They are good flutes no matter what they are made from.

Huh. ABS sure sounded familiar to me. Oh well.
Is PVC hard to work?

[I.D.10-t]

Well, life is just full of little surprises......I bought this as an M AND E assuming it was from the site referenced above.....when it came in I gave it a quick glance and put it away....now having dug it out I see the cap says M&E RUDALL & ROSE........

This a different flute from my own M&E Rudall.....completely....

It is a shame that it hasn't been played for a long time.

[Jack Bradshaw]

It is a shame that it hasn't been played for a long time.

..only put it away a little over a week ago......other essentials have had me seriously distracted

[Coffee]

I've met Michael at his house actually. I was there on holiday (having been stationed in England at the time) and he met me in town and had me follow him to his place. I'd have gotten lost if he hadn't.
I got a tour of his work area and got to toot a bit on some of the flutes in his collection.

(Incidentally, I had since lost the end cap that came with my M&E. Amazingly the stopper from a (recently emptied) Dalmore bottle fit perfectly and looks rather nice on it.)

[Feadoggie]

Huh. ABS sure sounded familiar to me. Oh well.

Yeah, me too. I'm still puzzled how ABS got into my head.

Is PVC hard to work?

Based only on my own experience, it's not bad to machine. I prefer delrin, acetal, CPVC or wood. The PVC's I have used, both rod and tube stock, have had a much lower tolerance for heat than CPVC or delrin/acetal so you just have to watch your turning speed and feed rates and work with sharp tools. Nothing new there. It's easier to glue than delrin or acetal. It seems very suitable for wind instruments. It's dimensionally stable and is moisture proof. It is also quite affordable. Obviously, Michael makes good use of it.

By the way, Jayhawk mentioned Pakistani flutes being sold on eBay that are claimed to be the product of an Irish maker. Some are still being advertised on eBay and are obviously the same "lamp making" stock that MidEast sells in the US. I have queried the seller in the past month asking who the "Irish maker" is but have not received any reply. Here's a listing for a completed sale which clearly states the flute is made in Ireland. Other than the color of the thread on the tenons, it looks just like one of the MidEast flutes. If anyone knows more about the provenance of these, I would be happy to be corrected.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Irish-Blackwood-Flu ... 0294743812

Feadoggie

[Jayhawk]

The rings are definitely different than M&E's rings on that eBay flute. I'm wary of any flute listed as DD.

Jack - I made a mistake on the M and E marking...my flute's original endcap was that way, but Michael kindly made one of the fancy end caps with the R&R logo on it for me.

Eric

[Jayhawk]

To finally put this puppy to bed...

I emailed Mr. Cronnolly about this online article, and he said he was not aware of it.

He said he makes the flutes himself. However, he said in 2004 he started buying his polymer from a Scottish/Northern English company, Protomould that makes plastics that are non-harmful for various purposes (including medical uses). The polymer rods come the correct length and they have the exterior taper already there (which saves him considerable time). He then has to cut the holes, cut the interior bore, cut the joints, put on the rings, etc. Essentially, except for getting the polymer the right length and with the exterior taper, he does all the normal work one does to make a wooden flute.

Hopefully, this will put to rest the Pakistan issue...

Jack - it's possible your earlier R&R M&E was made from the prior PVC Mr. Cronnolly was using. He said the new material, in his opinion, has a woodier tone, and it's only available through his current supplier. He definitely wanted only to sell polymer flutes that would not have any chemicals that could harm anyone. Maybe it machines a bit differently?

As an aside, Mr. Cronnolly is a real gentleman, responds to emails, and I wouldn't hesitate recommending his flutes to anyone. Then again, I am biased since I own one, but I've had the opportunity, and funds, to buy a more expensive flute but am happy with my M&E.

Eric

[Jack Bradshaw]

That certainly fits the description...the older one was definitely turned from rod stock and the other has a molded exterior...and they play exactly alike !

[Daniel_Bingamon]

I think a newsletter called the "Woowind Quarterly" said that he was using ABS back 10 or so years ago - that doesn't mean it's right, it just what got published.

[Steve Bliven]

I think a newsletter called the "Woowind Quarterly" said that he was using ABS back 10 or so years ago - that doesn't mean it's right, it just what got published.

You mean this article from Mr. Cronnolly's web site? Mentions ABS only as one of a suite of materials he considered in development of his polymer instruments. Not that he ever used it commercially. (Kind of "old news" though.)

Best wishes.

Steve

[tucson_whistler]

i've had several dealings with M&E and also like to recommend them; i had the D, Eb, and F ebonite flutes before i sold the F. I still have the D, and think it's a great flute--as i've said a bunch of times, i prefer it to any other delrin or "polymer" flute i've tried.

also, about the cap; he told me he ships keyless models with a regular black end cap that is all delrin or ebonite that just says M&E RR on it. i asked about the cap with the metal stamp on it, and he said he usually only puts that on his keyed models. i asked for one though, and he sent it to me with the Eb i bought, so i switched it out and have a keyless with the metal stamp endcap on it.



cheers,
eric

[Nanohedron]

[Donning the official moderatorial red, I'm calling everyone's attention to the fact that I decided to amend the OP's title in this zombie thread ( ), and thus try to deflect any potential disservice to Mr. Cronnolly. - Mod]

[Steve Bliven]

Thank you Mr. Moderator.

Best wishes.

Steve

[Latticino]

Thanks Mods,

I was very sorry to see this particular thread resurrected. The original topic line was a little sensationalist to prompt feedback, and I thought I adequately explained that in the body of my posts. Just wanted some clarification regarding the article that prompted the OP, where someone from M&E talked about reworking flute blanks. As stated before I doubted that this was the case, was just looking for more info.