Kevin Crawford's BCd Ornament

[michael c]

There's a post not too far from here:

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=60203

referring to the same Kevin Crawford being in Belfast tomorrow. I'll be in Belfast too (I always am ... get me out of here) but won't be able to make it to his do. Maybe there is still time to ask the poster of the announcement of his visit to find out what way he BCD's his BCDs. If Kevin doesn't know then George W is coming here on Monday. He might ... ???

My way was just a bluff. I just fancied a game of noughts and crosses (tic tac toe / x-ee o-sees) but hadn't any paper.

[Rob Sharer]

W's not a fluther, he's a fiddler. When in Rome...

[mahanpots]

I'm sure there are lots of ways but this one makes that sort of sound:

xooooo (b) (then xxxooo for a tiny moment before lifting the top finger) ... then ...

oxxooo (c) ... then ...

oxxxxx (d)

Except that as a general rule, all B-c-d triplets are played with a c#, regardless of the key you're in. That c# goes by so fast it doesn't matter that it's not in the key of the tune. I've never heard anyone use a c natural in these triplets, not to say that it can't be done but really there's no reason to do it.

The B-c-d triplet is like a toggle switch -- you're going from B to d and if you vent the d you need to lift your top index finger anyway, so the c# is simply a passing note between B and d.

xoo ooo
ooo ooo
oxx xxx

I was taught the complete opposite; that is, as a general rule, B-c-d triplets are played with a c-natural and that the c-natural goes by so fast it doesn't matter that if it's not in the key of the tune played. It works for me.

Michael

[Rob Sharer]

Mike, I think you're making extra work for yourself. Using Cnat is unneccessarily cumbersome, and never sounds as snappy as using C#. I've messed with using Cnat, but never could find any benefit to doing it that way. Cheers,

Rob

[bang]

Mike, I think you're making extra work for yourself. Using Cnat is unneccessarily cumbersome, and never sounds as snappy as using C#. I've messed with using Cnat, but never could find any benefit to doing it that way.

Rob, how do you get the kind of crisp articulation between the B and c# that Crawford has in the clips above? there is a distinct pulse to his c notes that i can't see any way to do in B-c# at speed.

enjoy! /dan

[Rob Sharer]

Well, this question actually drove me off the computer and onto the flute! I'm still going to stick by my prior assertion, that a controlled, confident blow is what makes the articulation crisp on this ornament. You have to have the flute really filled up and excited, but not in a loose, uncontrolled way. On the contrary, it's that rolled-in, dark, focused, purposeful tone that lends itself to the efffect we're discussing. When it all comes together, the notes just jump out clearly, almost on their own. Forgive me if I'm not describing it well, but unlike a finger-trick you really can't see what's going on. Try practicing the ornament with the flute rolled in to an extreme degree, then roll back out more to where you usually play and see if you can carry some of the efffect with you. Cheers,

Rob

[mahanpots]

Mike, I think you're making extra work for yourself. Using Cnat is unneccessarily cumbersome, and never sounds as snappy as using C#. I've messed with using Cnat, but never could find any benefit to doing it that way. Cheers,

Rob

It's a piece of cake. I don't see how you get that sound using the c#. I get a nice pop when I slam down (don't know how else to say that) my L2 and L3 for the c-natural. It's not cumbersome at all. That's the way Mike Casey taught me early on; I don't know who taught him. I remember having to work at it to get the sound down, but not any harder than working at other aspects of ornamentation. From my experience, I'd recommend the c-natural with that triplet.
I happened to have a clip with the triplet in question opened up in Audacity, so I'll share a piece of it with the BCD triplet. Maybe not my best BCD, but I think it's pretty good.

Michael

[bepoq]

I use both lads - different sound from each if you ask me - rather in the relatively subtle way that the middle d is different with top finger on and off, but also I do tend as standard to play it in the key of the tune I'm playing in, if you see what I mean. I also play it Michael C's way sometimes for that bubbly effect, or, on some flutes better than others:

xooooo
xxxooo
oxxooo
oxxxxx

I agree that force of embouchure can really make it crack out. I've working on the throat articulation across it too - depends upon speed thus far if I can make it match well.

[daiv]

i hear articulation on the triplet. at first i thought it was only on the c, but he is definitely articulating the B on several occasions, if not all of them. i havent bothered to listen to it enough to see if he is on the d, as well. i see him playing c natural.

the big trick, however, is how you apply the articulation. if i'm hearing it as what i think it is, then the best way i can describe it is an alveor, non-plosive flap. the alveor ridge is the part where you hit your tongue on the d sound in eddie. non-plosive means it does not push air out of the mouth: the p in spit is non plosive, but the p in pie is plosive.

my uncle, brian mccoy, uses the same articulation in most of his playing: http://cdbaby.com/mp3lofi/kells-01.m3u

it's all over the place in this recording, but especially in the triplets. it adds an interesting sound, just as in kevin's playing: a fluttery, delayed sort of sound.

if you can hear that fast, my uncle is doing the same sort of tonguing on the F# in the triplet right right here, on the first measure of the phrase of the A part:

A3B AGED | (3EFG

in this case, i believe my uncle is only tonguing the F. when you listen to it, it sounds like he is tonguing afterwards (which is the delay i was talking about), but i believe he is only tonguing on the F.

i cannot tell if kevin is tonguing the d, because i only spent a minute or two on it, but i would say i hear it on the c. i


rob--maybe you're not hearing it because it's not a normal articulation in a flute player's toolbox? it could be you're not hearing it because you don't expect it to be there, because you don't use it, and because most players don't, so you wouldnt have heard it. on the converse, maybe i'm hearing it because my uncle does, and so i am expecting it to be there, because that is how i have heard that sound made in the past.

[George]

I appreciate the replies.

Although I agree with Rob, a full sound makes everything more clear and present, I don't think that's what I'm hearing here. It's distinct in the whistle clip and there's no embouchure in play there.

I think Brad is correct that you could use a c# all the time when you come across a BCd "triplet". Again though that's not what I'm hearing here.

What Michael describes, I know as a backstitch from the Seamus Egan tutorial. Lovely embellishment, I use it frequently and hear others do so as well.

Dow, I was messing around with what you said. You're saying hit a B sliding up towards C, then a cross fingered C, finally finishing on a vented middle d? You didn't happen to record the man himself playing it in the workshop?

Thanks again for all the input. I think it sounds great and want to figure out what's going on!

-George

[Ro3b]

Except that as a general rule, all B-c-d triplets are played with a c#, regardless of the key you're in. That c# goes by so fast it doesn't matter that it's not in the key of the tune. I've never heard anyone use a c natural in these triplets, not to say that it can't be done but really there's no reason to do it.

The reason for doing it is so you can do the cool snappy triplet. The secret, as Michael C says, is a tiny G gracing between the B and C. A very easy way to do this is to start by playing the B with the fingering

xox ooo

Switch your top two fingers for the C, but do it lazily enough that all three fingers are on the flute for a microsecond. Then play the D.

Here's a recording of me doing it slowly, then fast. And quietly, because it's just after 7 am here.

[Rob Sharer]

Seems to be a consensus building for the little quasi-grace-note thing being in there! Let me put it this way: I can get a nice, crisp articulation when I play that sequence of notes just by minding my blow. Even if you do want to elaborate the ornament, it will never sound like Kevin Crawford if you don't play with a really focused, efficient airstream, producing a clear, solid tone. I'd say that's more important than the finger-move, so maybe work on that first anyway. Cheers,

Rob

[Rob Sharer]

I keep going back to the YouTube vid, and I'm drawn to the way he plays the 3rd part - he's playing the C's and C#'s off against each other to great effect. One thing's for sure: we shouldn't just assume that he's playing the BCd the same way every time! The man's got an amazing palette of variations. Cheers,

Rob

[mahanpots]

Maybe I'm hitting that fragment of a "G gracenote" but haven't been aware of it. It wasn't taught to me that way. And I agree with Rob's focused, efficient air stream and clear, solid tone, but think maybe it's more important when using the C#; I'm not sure. I'll try to remember to get you to show me that next time I see you, Rob. We can exchange BcDs.

Michael

[Rob Sharer]

I'll try to remember to get you to show me that next time I see you, Rob. We can exchange BcDs.

Michael

This is North Carolina, son. Don't you know that's against the law?

Truth be told, I already use a couple of different variations of the ornament in question. One of my favorites is actually C#-C#-d, with a single tongued articulation on the middle C#. I'm hip to the concept of letting a tiny bit of G shade the front end of a C natural on the way up, but even when employing this strategy, the firm blow is what makes it really pop. Bepoq's mention of the throat articulation also got overlooked; that's a great way to kick off the run up to d, no matter what you're doing with your fingers. Cheers,
Rob