Kevin Crawford's BCd Ornament

[George]

Mr. Crawford does something on his BCd "triplets", anyone know what he's up to?

-George

Kevin Crawford - Beginning of the 3rd part
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsH8Sq3NJj8

Clodagh Holland - Second part of the Curlew
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhal ... h_holland/

[Terry McGee]

Haven't looked into it, George, but it would be interesting to see if you were able to decipher the ornament using Tartini (the program we use as the data-collection system for Reel-Time-Tuning-Analysis and which can be downloaded for free).

Terry

[Guinness]

Mr. Crawford does something on his BCd "triplets", anyone know what he's up to?

Hmm, whatever KC's doing he suddenly got much prettier in the second video.

The audio quality of KC's vid isn't very good but I think he's double/triple tonguing to get the accented B and separation between the BCd. The other thing is his Cnat is sharp (one of those in-between Cnat/C# things).

I didn't bother to slow down CH's vid. She's good though.

[Rob Sharer]

What a great performance! He's getting all the bits in there without losing the mighty puls along the way. Something to aspire to!

Now, about the "Bcd" ornament, as you put it. I don't think he's doing any extra articulation at all; that's the sound of someone with a really efficient blow. Many learners fail to recognize the importance of having your blow together in getting your ornaments to sound crisp. It's at least half the battle. When that comes together, that particular ornament will absolutely crack off the flute, no flutter-tonguing or other skullduggery required. Cheers,

Rob

[Hoovorff]

Thanks for posting that second, whistle clip! She IS good! I enjoyed her playing very much. I noticed a flute in the background--I'd like to hear this "up-and-comer" on flute, too!

Jeanie

[michael c]

I'm sure there are lots of ways but this one makes that sort of sound:

xooooo (b) (then xxxooo for a tiny moment before lifting the top finger) ... then ...

oxxooo (c) ... then ...

oxxxxx (d)


i.e. putting the 2nd and third fingers down a fraction before lifting the top one when going from B to C natural makes a little popping G thing.

The only thing about that ornament is that it is a lot easier to learn than avoid once you have learned it.

[Guinness]

I'm sure there are lots of ways but this one makes that sort of sound:

xooooo (b) (then xxxooo for a tiny moment before lifting the top finger) ... then ...

oxxooo (c) ... then ...

oxxxxx (d)


i.e. putting the 2nd and third fingers down a fraction before lifting the top one when going from B to C natural makes a little popping G thing.

You can add a c# grace before the B to get even more pop.

{c#}B{G}cd

However, I didn't hear any grace notes in KC's Bcd.

[bradhurley]

I'm sure there are lots of ways but this one makes that sort of sound:

xooooo (b) (then xxxooo for a tiny moment before lifting the top finger) ... then ...

oxxooo (c) ... then ...

oxxxxx (d)

Except that as a general rule, all B-c-d triplets are played with a c#, regardless of the key you're in. That c# goes by so fast it doesn't matter that it's not in the key of the tune. I've never heard anyone use a c natural in these triplets, not to say that it can't be done but really there's no reason to do it.

The B-c-d triplet is like a toggle switch -- you're going from B to d and if you vent the d you need to lift your top index finger anyway, so the c# is simply a passing note between B and d.

xoo ooo
ooo ooo
oxx xxx

[dow]

Except that as a general rule, all B-c-d triplets are played with a c#, regardless of the key you're in. That c# goes by so fast it doesn't matter that it's not in the key of the tune. I've never heard anyone use a c natural in these triplets, not to say that it can't be done but really there's no reason to do it.

The B-c-d triplet is like a toggle switch -- you're going from B to d and if you vent the d you need to lift your top index finger anyway, so the c# is simply a passing note between B and d.

xoo ooo
ooo ooo
oxx xxx

I believe that Brad is correct. Kevin showed us that little bc#d articulation thing last year, and what he does is more like a pull-off. Finger the B, and then pull your index finger off the side of the hole on your way to fingering the d. Sounds neat, doesn't it?

[bradhurley]

Best way to learn it is to start by going from B directly to d a whole bunch of times until that feels comfortable (this is the toggle switch part: you start with one finger down and all the rest up, then lift that one finger and put all the rest down:

xoo ooo
oxx xxx

Do that until it becomes comfortable, and then just lift your B finger a fraction of a second before you put your other fingers down for the d. Instant B-c#-d triplet, couldn't be easier.

[bang]

I'm sure there are lots of ways but this one makes that sort of sound:

xooooo (b) (then xxxooo for a tiny moment before lifting the top finger) ... then ...
oxxooo (c) ... then ...
oxxxxx (d)

Except that as a general rule, all B-c-d triplets are played with a c#, regardless of the key you're in.

after careful listening to slowed down clips of this sequence, i think in this case Kevin Crawford is applying the michael c exception to the rule. on the bit i listened to, he is definitely sounding a Cnat. (Ab actually.) and there is a lower pitched percussive blip that must be the tap of the transition from xooooo to xxxooo.

enjoy! /dan

[bradhurley]

[
after careful listening to slowed down clips of this sequence, i think in this case Kevin Crawford is applying the michael c exception to the rule. on the bit i listened to, he is definitely sounding a Cnat. (Ab actually.)

Ah, but on most Bb flutes (which is what he's playing on that clip), the note corresponding to a C# on a D flute is flat. On my Wilkes Bb, that note is nearly flat enough to pass for a C natural, and I have to lip it way up to get it in tune. I forget who made the Bb he's playing there, I think that's a flute he borrowed for the occasion (same flute he borrowed for In Good Company, before Michael Grinter made him a Bb of his own), but chances are good that the C# is quite flat on that one too. So I wouldn't put too much stock in trying to decipher it from the recording.

Watching his fingers, though, it doesn't look like he's lifting them all so in fact he COULD be playing a C natural there, or at least just leaving down the middle finger on his left hand. But he could be lifting it slightly too, I can't tell even if I pause the video right when he's doing the triplet.

[bang]

for your listening &/or tartini pleasure:

http://www.pacificsites.com/~dog/tmp/abcdc.wav
http://www.pacificsites.com/~dog/tmp/abcdc.5.wav
http://www.pacificsites.com/~dog/tmp/abcdc.25.wav
http://www.pacificsites.com/~dog/tmp/gbcdc.wav
http://www.pacificsites.com/~dog/tmp/gbcdc.5.wav
http://www.pacificsites.com/~dog/tmp/gbcdc.25.wav

two B-c?-d (aka G-A?-Bb) snippets with the surrounding notes. xxx.5.wav's are at half speed. xxx.25.wav's are 1/4 speed. they loop fairly well.

a couple of things relative to the original query seem notable. there is some sort of articulation between the B and c notes which clearly separates them. and more interesting to me is that the c notes seems a bit earlier and longer than they would be in a straight triplet. both of these contribute to the crisp sound of Crawford's triplets.

enjoy! /dan

[Gabriel]

That movement sounds quite nice with a C bounce:

XOO OOO
[OXX OXX
OXX XXX <-- bounce R1
OXX OXX]
OXX XXX

[bradhurley]

Cool, and I have to admit that I've been away from this forum so long that I forgot that "michael c" is in fact none other than Michael C, a truly brilliant flute player, so if he says that's a good way to do a B-c-d triplet then it is, no questions asked

But I still feel that for most of us mortals, the simple B-c#-d triplet is adequate for the job.