Chiff and Fipple Forums

The topic of these two manufacturers may have been touched on in the past however I'm still working on getting the hang of the C+F board and, if this is so, I apologize if this is a repeat post that's already answered somewhere...

Over the past month I've had the opportunity to carefully inspect both a Bilton 1-key fife/piccolo + Metzler & Co. 8-key flute that I, unfortunately, know little to nothing about.


According to the newer Langwill Index (from Lark in the Morning), Bilton manufactured the 1-key piccolo/fife I currently have between 1826-1856. I've seen very little in the flute world from Bilton, personally, however I've also not been diligently searching. It's my understanding that most Bilton instruments are made of boxwood with ivory rings, etc.

Metzler & Co., also from London, was around between 1895-1936 and the 8-key flutes I've seen online had/have pewter plugs for the low C# and low C. The Metzler currently in my possession (ebay #: 200227441808) is made of cocuswood which I believe most (if not all) Metzler flutes were constructed of.

Does anyone from the forum have any input on either Bilton or Metzler flutes (either good or bad) or manufacturer's info, etc. aside from the Langwill tidbits? Thanks![/img]

That Metzler is a good-looker.

Hi Suzie, I have a Bilton flute, and you are correct that if the address on the flute is Westminster Bridge Road, London then it was made between 1826 and 1856. Actually if the address is Mount Row, Lambeth then it can be more accurately dated to between 1824 - 1826. Also ivory rings, English boxwood, and my one has a lined head.

I don't play it because I find it far to quiet and it needs some work done on the keys, but it is nice to have and is a great piece of craftsmanship.

My Hammy Hamilton book lists "Metzler V. circa 1800 - 1930 at various addresses".

Aanvil bought the farm...

Jon C. wrote:Aanvil bought the farm...

Yep! Guess that one will be turning up.

I'm afraid little is known about Bilton, though the craftmanship is excellent. Here is a photo of my 8 key.

<img src="http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/5551/bintonmx6.jpg"[/img]>

nitterwhiskers wrote:I'm afraid little is known about Bilton, though the craftmanship is excellent. Here is a photo of my 8 key.

<img src="http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/5551/bintonmx6.jpg"[/img]>

Hmm.... that interesting.


How does it play?



Oh and yes...

Thats right...

I bought the farm.



Its a goose farm and I play ITM for them and use vintage flutes to force feed them corn.

It makes the foie gras taste magically delicious!


Kevin I'll let you borrow it some time after I have had the chance to explore it... I think you might have something we can exchange.



p

nitterwhiskers wrote:I'm afraid little is known about Bilton, though the craftmanship is excellent. Here is a photo of my 8 key.

<img src="http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/5551/bintonmx6.jpg"[/img]>

Nice looking flute!
Acording to the New Langwill Index, Bilton used to work as Cramer's foreman, then later went to work for Key, who's company was later bought out by Rudall, Rose and Carte.

Here's my Bilton, a 6-key in a somewhat earlier style than nitterwhiskers' ....



Terry

Aanvil wrote: Kevin I'll let you borrow it some time after I have had the chance to explore it... I think you might have something we can exchange.



p

Mmmm....no.

I hope to get to a Long Beach Sunday session in the near future, though, just to get back in touch with everybody. It's certainly been a while for me. But sick cats come first.

Jon C. wrote: Acording to the New Langwill Index, Bilton used to work as Cramer's foreman, then later went to work for Key, who's company was later bought out by Rudall, Rose and Carte.

That's right because that is stamped on the headjoint of his flutes. I forget who he was apprenticed to though, although I did find that info while googling some years back. Could be Potter or someone (or quite possibly not) I can't remember.

franco wrote:

Jon C. wrote: Acording to the New Langwill Index, Bilton used to work as Cramer's foreman, then later went to work for Key, who's company was later bought out by Rudall, Rose and Carte.

That's right because that is stamped on the headjoint of his flutes. I forget who he was apprenticed to though, although I did find that info while googling some years back. Could be Potter or someone (or quite possibly not) I can't remember.

some early stamps said: "Late apprentice and Foreman to Cramer" So i guess that is who he apprenticed.

Aanvil, it looks like a cousin of my Metzler:

http://www.pbase.com/eskin/metzler_flute

Formerly owned by Dave Migoya before he got heavily into the Rudall-Rose instruments.

Mine clearly was in high pitch, nearly E-flat, didn't really play very well with the head joint pulled way out, so I had Hammy build me a concert pitch headjoint in the same style as the rest of the flute. How's yours as far as pitch?

On the Bilton's playability-- I also had horrible luck with the small round embouchure holes of the old-school 'baroque' flutes (if that's the correct terminology?) being extremely difficult to play. I was, however, quite surprised (and pleased!) with the way this 1-key Bilton picc/fife plays. I think the objective is to get as little of your bottom lip as possible over the blow hole/embouchure hole and just practice that for a bit as the hole is just way smaller than normal (in my opinion, anyhow!). I may have a recording of the Bilton somewhere around here as it's currently "sick" on the waiting table... poor thing!

As for the Metzler in the last link, I saw that before and that was the most similar Metzler I was able to find in comparison to the one that Aanvil won. Interesting though!

**BILTON HAS BEEN SOLD! THANKS, CHARLIE!**

I've decided to post on this topic again as I've just convinced myself that I need to sell the Bilton 1-key piccolo/fife due to financial reasons. Measurements are available upon request and point-blank this instrument does sound GREAT when assembled however needs some work to be up to par 100%. To put it bluntly, an idiot down the line rubber cemented this instrument together and the lower joint has a piece of boxwood missing and the upper body section's tenon is stuck inside the lower joint. The original brass key needs to be cleaned and oiled and a new pad/cork needs to be added. Unfortunately this well-made piccolo/fife is in this state but we can't win them all. If the original seller would've shown the shine of the glue inside where the piece of wood is missing than I would never have bid. The plus side, however, is that it's rubber cement which I've heard to be quite easy to remove. It seems as though the broken tenon was the cause for the entire instrument to be rubber cemented as there was glue over where the tenon was separated. Here is a link to photos and if anyone is interested, please make me an offer! Thanks!
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/fo ... ?start=all