High D fingering

[mahanpots]

I know I tend to get a more accurate or "cleaner" high d on my flute and whistle when I lift my c-finger on my left hand (would that be L-4?), but sometimes I opt for the lazier way of leaving it down when playing say, for instance, New Copperplate, where you play G2dG BgdG.

Or in the Coachman's Whip:
D2DE G2GB| d2BG DGBG| E2ce dece| dBAG FAGE

I'm curious if there's anyone who thinks you should always lift the finger. I tend to lift it when it's easier to do, and when it's more difficult, I don't. I've never really spent time trying to learn to do it when it's difficult.

Michael

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[jemtheflute]

Yep, always lift it. I take it you mean (the flute's middle) D at the bottom of the 2nd 8ve, not the one at the start of the 3rd? (Which is what I'd call "high D"). It should be such an ingrained habit that you don't have to think about it/aren't really aware of it as an issue.

[Denny]

might as well lift it for both high Ds....

[chas]

How it sounds depends on the flute and the player. I've had a couple of flutes on which the middle D was noticeably flat if not vented. Also I've had a couple, both Prattens, which sometimes jumped up to A without venting. However I don't have either of these problems on any of the flutes I have kept. The pitch doesn't change when I lift up the first finger, and the character of the sound changes only subtly. Chris Norman told me not to bother venting, and I believe on Brad Hurley's site, Jack Coen says the same.

[johnkerr]

Duplicate post deleted.

[johnkerr]

I'm curious if there's anyone who thinks you should always lift the finger. I tend to lift it when it's easier to do, and when it's more difficult, I don't. I've never really spent time trying to learn to do it when it's difficult.

To answer your question, yes there are flute players who say you should always lift that finger on the D. But there are probably just as many who would say you don't need to. I don't lift it myself when I play the D, probably because I got into the habit of not lifting it after taking summer school classes with Jack Coen in the first days of my flute playing in the early 1990s. Jack is one who would say you don't need to bother lifting that finger on the D, and at the time I noticed no real difference whether I did or not. I was playing an Olwell, and it was in tune either way. Then about four years ago I took a summer school class with June McCormack, who advocates always raising the finger because it produces a stronger tone on the D. I tried it by playing the D with and without the finger up, and sure enough it did produce a slightly stronger and more focused tone if the finger was up. I was still playing the Olwell then, indeed the same head joint as before with only a switch-out to a keyed body, but I think what had changed in the interim between the two checks was that my playing had just become better with experience. When I first tried it, there may have been a wee bit of difference, but it paled in the face of my tone not being all that great in the first place. My tone is better now, so differences are more evident, I guess. But for me to make the switch now to lifting the finger would involve a major revamping of my heavily-ingrained playing style, so I haven't done it. It does make a difference, but not all that much. For instance, in that track of hornpipes I have posted here the first note is a long middle D, and it sounds okay to me. Certainly if anyone is going to jump on any aspect of my playing, my middle D wouldn't be it. There's lots of other stuff to criticize first!

Oddly enough, the flute player I've spent the most time with in summer school classes and such is Catherine McEvoy, and I can't for the life of me recall whether she lifts the finger on the middle D or not.

[mahanpots]

Just as I thought, both yeahs and neahs.

I would like to learn to do it on certain tunes, as the one's I mentioned. I know there are some tunes where I lift the finger, usually when it's easy. I don't think you'd have to change your whole repertoire by learning to do it on a few tunes.

I'd have to say, that I would recommend a beginner to learn it, just so they have that ability. There are tunes when it's not necessary, but why not do it anyway, and then when you get to those tunes that benifit from it, you'll be better off.

Michael

[sbfluter]

Sometimes I think it is easier to leave my finger down than lift it, such as when playing something like this:

dBeB dBAB

But otherwise I think it sounds better with the finger lifted.

Of course I am a rather low-level player so what I do isn't to be considered advise or wisdom.

[Cubitt]

I lift the finger when I am going to play D as a sustained tone. If I am zipping past it, I decide at the time. I think it makes more difference on a Boehm.

[Denny]

not enough to matter if you're in a hurry

[michael c]

I'd lift it. You could leave it down the odd time as a variation (which will probably not be noticed by anyone else but will have its own entertainment value for your good self). By not lifting the top finger you can sort of mix a bit of bottom D in with the high one.

[Levente]

Michael,

I think I can hear the difference between vent and non-vent high Ds even when played by someone else. Not only the D as a separate note but the whole phrase sounds more lifted and clear-cut with vented fingering for me.

Re-learning:
I'd spent long years non-venting and when I decided to go for venting a year ago (being advised by Jean-Michel Veillon) all I did was I learned new tunes with the vent version. With time the 2nd octave Ds of the old tunes of my repertoire went vent (sic) by themselves.

However, I have a Pratten and a RR model and I don't vent when I cran on either one. Keeps my crans much crispier.

Levente

[Cubitt]

A point to consider is that the closed high D has a different sound than the vented high D, which puts it in contrast with the notes that surround it, when vented. I find the closed D more resonant - which makes sense given that the air must travel the full length of the bore. If the note is in tune, you might find that the more open sound of the vented D is actually a detriment to the sound you wish to produce.

[Rob Sharer]

Hi Mike! Git yer butt up to Raleigh some Sunday and play a tune or four with us!

Now, about the D. The sound of each fingering tends to be different, more or less depending on the particular instrument. I use the same fingering as for the low D when I want my middle D to blend in. When I want it to pop out, as in a tune like the Dublin reel with some repeated figure that benefits from exaggerated "punctuation", if you will, I use the five-down version. Not only is the sound more of a contrast, but when switching rapidly between notes/octaves, the all-but-one fingering makes it easy to jump very definitely to the middle D; the note, at the proper blowing pressure, fairly cracks out of the flute. It's also the more tolerant of the two fingering choices as regards how hard you're blowing. You're less likely to blow the wrong octave, since the low D is hors-jeu. Cheers,

Rob

[mahanpots]

Thanks for all the comments. I'm going to be learning and/or relearning venting the middle d.

Rob, remind me again when and where the session is. Every Sunday?

Say Hi to Lulu.

Michael