Purchasing Advice

[PallasAthena]

For probably the 100th time, I've deluded myself into thinking that I'm going to get myself another (nicer) flute in the spring, if I improve enough to make the investment worthwhile. So, I have a few questions:

1. What kind of woods are good?

2. Keyed vs. not keyed?

3. Any brand recomendation for affordable midlevel flutes?

[Gabriel]

This has been discussed various times before here, but here ya go...

1. Blackwood is the wood of choice for most people. Boxwood is nice but tends to warp and swell sometimes. Cocus is probably the best wood you can get. Many other woods are good as well, you normally can trust in what the flutemaker thinks is good for making flutes. Different woods sound different. Do a search in the forums as it's highly subjective. Read this for a recent discussion on blackwood vs. boxwood. My flute is made rom Satiné and it sounds alot like blackwood. Generally you can say: dense wood = fat sound, not so dense wood = not so fat sound. Also keep in mind that people can be allergic to certain woods. If you are, Delrin might be the material of choice.

2. You don't need keys for ITM. But they're handy to have. My main flute is an eight key and I don't regret spending more than twice the money compared to the keyless version. There was a thread about this a while back. I can't find it at the moment. Search for "keys + ITM". Also try this one.

3. Again highly subjective. Most makers who are considered to be "top makers" have a long waiting list. There was a thread about this quite recently. But there are also many many makers who are not known by everyone and still fire out gorgeous flutes. I personally can recommend Maurice Reviol, he makes a very versatile and fat sounding Pratten style flute with big bore and big holes and very easily usable keys. Easy to get a basic sound out of it, but that "dark & reedy" tune needs some time to develop. Maurice is a great chap with the best customer service I ever experienced. And he isn't that expensive, and his waiting list isn't that long. I waited half a year for my eight key.
Try to play as many flutes as possible. As said, there is no "best flute for $X". Some flutes may fit you, others not.

Best,
G.

[Gordon]

Gabriel's right -- we've been all over this... But I'm not sure I'd agree that cocus -- or any wood -- is the best. There are aesthetic differences between woods, and the tone spectrum probably has blackwood and boxwood on the farthest sides of tonal differences, but all are subjective, and most tonal differences rely more heavily on the flute style, the maker, and therefore the embouchure cut. Blackwood is the most practical and most common/available wood. My vote, if you're talking a new flute, would be blackwood, simply because it's the least problematic all 'round.

If you are still 'improving yourself' enough to want a better flute spring after spring, then you're either not practicing enough or you really do need a better flute. A decent flute will eliminate the possibility that it's the instrument holding you back, and you'll sound a bit better anyway, even if your progress stays where it is.

There are advantages to getting keys early on, but you may not need them if you're strictly ITM and/or don't play enough to tackle anything but the basic ITM tunes. Money - as always - is a factor; my best flute is still a keyless, because I can't afford an equal flute with keys. That said, I rarely need keys, between the tunes that don't use them and half holing the ones that do. Still, as a cautionary tale, I do regret making the no-keys decision back when affording keys was not as daunting for me, financially speaking, as it is today. Who knew things would get worse?

Gordon

[talasiga]

For probably the 100th time, I've deluded myself into thinking that I'm going to get myself another (nicer) flute in the spring, if I improve enough to make the investment worthwhile. So, I have a few questions:

1. What kind of woods are good?

2. Keyed vs. not keyed?

3. Any brand recomendation for affordable midlevel flutes?

What do you have right now?
Do you only/intend to only play 99% of ITM repertoire?

[jim stone]

Blackwood, keyless but retrofittable.
As to maker, how much are you prepared to spend?

[PallasAthena]

For probably the 100th time, I've deluded myself into thinking that I'm going to get myself another (nicer) flute in the spring, if I improve enough to make the investment worthwhile. So, I have a few questions:

1. What kind of woods are good?

2. Keyed vs. not keyed?

3. Any brand recomendation for affordable midlevel flutes?

What do you have right now?
Do you only/intend to only play 99% of ITM repertoire?

I have two cheap bamboo flutes that I don't play very much.

I have one nice Japanese flute of unknown history--it was a gift to my gift to my grandpa from his Japanese lab partner but he played violin so he gave it to me--that plays in a Western scale and sounds very nice. The one problem is that it's in A and something in G or D would be more useful for playing with other people.

[Romulo]

The one problem is that it's in A and something in G or D would be more useful for playing with other people.

Or you could play Scottish music and accompany highland pipes with it

[talasiga]

The one problem is that it's in A and something in G or D would be more useful for playing with other people.

Or you could play Scottish music and accompany highland pipes with it

All Irish music in D key signature can be played on an A flute
providing you cross finger the top note on the A flute to get G.

Pallas, as to which mid level IF you you could get, have you checked out
http://www.sweetheartflute.com/irishflutes.html ?

[sbhikes]

You could try Casey Burns, too. He makes nice flutes. Not sure what mid-level means. I'm not sure I'd consider his flutes mid level, unless you leave out the tuning slides. But I'd think you'd want at least that much for the second stage of fluting.

http://caseyburnsflutes.com/cat_d.php#dprices

[PallasAthena]

The one problem is that it's in A and something in G or D would be more useful for playing with other people.

Or you could play Scottish music and accompany highland pipes with it

All Irish music in D key signature can be played on an A flute
providing you cross finger the top note on the A flute to get G.

Pallas, as to which mid level IF you you could get, have you checked out
http://www.sweetheartflute.com/irishflutes.html ?

I'll have to exparament with that. My A flute is sort of odd--not sure what kind of flute it is--so I've figured out most things about it through trial and error. If I could get another exactly like it in D, I'd be a very happy person, but I doubt that will happen.

My other flutes are in more conventional keys (G and C, really a fife) but they are a bit less reliable.

Anyway, thanks for the link.

[Unseen122]

Good mid-priced Flutes would include (but not be limited to):

Martin Doyle
Casey Burns
Dave Copley
Jon C
Seery
Mark Hoza

[Wormdiet]

The one problem is that it's in A and something in G or D would be more useful for playing with other people.

Or you could play Scottish music and accompany highland pipes with it

Nope. . . .not quite right.

Modern pipes are actually played in, basically, Bb mixolydian scale. . . so the best flute for playing along is an Eb. Why Eb and not Bb? Because with an Eb, you get to play the "bottom 7th" - the note that lies a whole tone lower than the tonic.

[Romulo]

The one problem is that it's in A and something in G or D would be more useful for playing with other people.

Or you could play Scottish music and accompany highland pipes with it

Nope. . . .not quite right.

Modern pipes are actually played in, basically, Bb mixolydian scale. . . so the best flute for playing along is an Eb. Why Eb and not Bb? Because with an Eb, you get to play the "bottom 7th" - the note that lies a whole tone lower than the tonic.

Not wanting to hijack this into a pipes discussion, but since you mentioned "modern pipes", I presume you are referring exclusively to the highland pipes, and yes, you're right concerning to modern highland pipes

For the general information to someone who might be interested, here is a transcription of http://www.hamishmoore.musicscotland.com/essay.htm

A description of the pipes made

Scottish Small Pipes
Scottish Small Pipes have led the present revival of bellows blown pipes nationally and internationally. In its modern form it is a bellows blown bagpipe with three drones set in a common stock and with a cylindrically bored open ended chanter. The drones are tuned to the tonic, one an octave below the tonic and one in between, on the fifth. It is currently being made in four keys, namely A, Bflat, C and D. The key of A is by far the most popular and can now be regarded as the standard for this instrumentThe scale of the chanter is myxolydian having a sharpened third and sixth and natural seventh. The pipes are harmonically rich, easy to maintain and due to a lack of moisture in the system the reeds are very stable and have a life of many years. In the keys of A and Bflat, the finger spacing and pitch are both similar to the practice chanter but with a vastly improved tone. It is little wonder that these pipes have reached their present level of popularity. Once the bellows technique has been mastered, the player has an instrument which is quiet enough to be played indoors with little physical effort and is acoustically and musically compatible with most other instruments.

There is no doubt that small pipes existed in Scotland in various forms (both mouth and bellows blown) but these have all suffered a demise into near or complete extinction. The present revival started in 1983 when the celebrated Northumbrian pipe-maker, Colin Ross designed a Scottish open ended cylindrically bored chanter to fit the highly developed and sophisticated Northumbrian chanter reed but which played with the Highland bagpipe fingering system. The first chanters were made in the key of D for myself and the well-known singer, Artie Tresize, who used the pipes to great effect with his singing partner, Cilla Fisher, in their children’s show, The Singing Kettle. Chanters in the other keys of C, A and Bflat followed fairly soon and the revival was underway. These developments, given the number of Highland pipers in the world, created a commercially viable situation for the many fledgling pipe-makers, who were to start making these pipes professionally. Colin had developed an hybrid instrument, which was to form the basis of a renaissance in the Highland piping world as significant as any single event since the inception of the first piping competition in 1781. When we came to start making Scottish Small Pipes in 1985, we used a set of Highland small pipes as our model for the drones, bellows and bag rather than the Northumbrian pipes on which Colin had based his instrument. The chanter/ reed combination however was based on Colin’s revolutionary work, although during the intervening years, modifications have been made to the chanter design and the reed has evolved to be quite distinctive from the original.

Border Pipes
These pipes are copied from Cox’s Plans, circa 1740 – 1760. They are bellows blown, have three drones issuing from a common stock and have a conical bored chanter in contrast to the parallel bore of the small pipes, thus allowing the pipes to play an octave higher than the quieter and more mellow small pipes. The drone arrangement is A bass, A tenor and high E alto. The key of the chanter is A and as well as the normal mixolydian scale, there are four semitones available, namely Bflat, C natural, E flat and F natural. These are achieved only in conical chanters and by the use of a system of cross-fingering. The wood of choice for these pipes is either Boxwood, which is grown high in the Pyrenees Mountains or local Yew.

The pipes were traditionally popular on both sides of the border, this being reflected in what was often a common repertoire between the Scottish Borders and Northumberland. In Scotland many of the border towns employed a border piper who’s duty it was to play through the streets in the early morning and to sound the curfew at night. The pipes declined in popularity towards the end of the 19th century and had virtually died out of use by the beginning of the 20th century. An interesting phenomenon which survived however until the 1930’s or 40’s was the Boy Scout Pipe Bands in Northumberland playing and marching with Border bagpipes. These pipes were traditionally supplied by Robertson’s, a well-known firm of bagpipe makers from Edinburgh.

During the course of the present revival however, it has only been in the last five or six years that these pipes have gained much popularity. The reasons for this are many, not least of which is the recent improvement in the standard of the pipes and in particular the chanter reed which has resulted in an improvement in the sound of the pipes. The majority of people purchasing bellows blown pipes are Highland pipers and a large part of the attraction for them is to have an instrument which is quiet enough to be played indoors, is in tune, is low maintenance and is a contrast to their Highland pipes. The small pipes, with their quiet volume and rich tone, provide an ideal alternative. For the first ten years of manufacture, I estimate that 99% of pipes made by us were small pipes. Today, the proportion of small pipes to border pipes is approximately two to one. This is an interesting development and it is worth noting that the increase in orders for Border pipes is largely the result of people ordering who already have small pipes and who are looking for a more challenging and expressive instrument. The pipes are principally being used in multi-instrumental folk bands where they will cut through and blend particularly well with other instruments. In informal traditional music sessions, the pipes are also beginning to find a very strong place and there is a potential for their use with classical musicians in an orchestral setting. These uses are far removed from their original function and it is also interesting to note that, as yet, very few people are playing Border music on these pipes. The Lowland and Border Pipers’ Society, since their inception, have done an invaluable job in promoting Scottish Small pipes and Border pipes.

Reconstruction of 18th century Highland Pipes
We have copied a particularly beautiful set of bagpipes, which was made at the end of the 18th century from ebony and mounted in solid silver, and which is now displayed in The Inverness Museum. From the 14th century until the late 17th century, pipes were made from indigenous timbers such as boxwood, yew, laburnum and various fruitwoods. From the end of the 17th century until the early years of this century as a result of the colonisation of parts of the West Indies, some very fine timbers became available for pipe making - cocus wood from Jamaica, lignum vitae from various places in the West Indies, and later, rosewood from Belize, followed by partridge wood from Venezuela. Parallel to but later than the developments in The West Indies, gradually increasing shipments of ebony and rosewood became available from India and these exotic species progressively displaced the indigenous timbers. The availability of these woods closely followed the expansion of the British Empire, which in turn put greater demands on the newly founded and ever-increasing Highland Regiments with their accelerating demand for more and more bagpipes. Pipe-makers of the day were extremely busy – business flourished! There is however an interesting anecdote from this period concerning The MacDougals of Aberfeldy. They were approached by the newly raised regiment of The Black Watch, who ordered twelve sets of pipes for their pipe band. MacDougal refused to join this new commercial bandwagon and insisted that all the pipers visit their premises individually to place personal orders for their pipes!

It was in the last two decades of the 18th century that a major change in design came about. The simple but elegant tulip-shaped bells of the drones became square and angular, the plain turned surfaces were highly decorated with an intricate system of combing, and external diameters of the drones and stocks became significantly larger. The late 18th century set in The Inverness Museum made of the exotic hardwood, ebony, must have been one of the last to be made in the old style. When these pipes were copied and reeded, they were found to play naturally in the key of A. This has been most useful for people playing with orchestras and has also been put to good use in folk bands.

[talasiga]

Well there you go Pallas Athena!
You don't have to be as wise as Hera to work out that
if you get a Tipple Eb
and
a Sweet Maple D
you will be able to play
Bb Mixolydian and A Mixolydian respectively easily
and that should be useful if you're time travelling
to Scohlund with Dr Who.

BTW, Irish Trad is shifting from D and G key signatures to Bb and Eb.
See if I am not wrong in 20 years. Majority of flautists will be on low Bb flutes.

I, Talasiga, predict that and predicted it first.

[Romulo]

I, Talasiga, predict that and predicted it first.