Flute Purchase Etiquette

[dow]

Interesting responses and not quite what I expected. The question isn't whether or not one should wait patiently for the maker to finish his work, but how long before one assumes there is a problem. I'm familiar with the expression "a watched pot never boils", but if the lid isn't percolating after half an hour or so I'm going to look to see if I remembered the water.

I asked the question as a matter of curiosity, but based on some responses I'm beginning to get genuinely disgruntled.

Ok. Here's a personal experience for you (although it has nothing to do with flutes). Two years ago, I ordered a custom holster from a builder and was quoted a time period. I left him alone until half-way through that time period. Then I checked again at the half-way point between when I checked and when the job was supposed to be done. Then I checked when it was supposed to be done. After that, I checked in with him about every two weeks and then every week until it was done. Normally I wouldn't have done this, but he kind of aggravated me, and I had already paid for the item.

On the other hand, my experience with Terry on my flute order last year was much better. As I recall, he did run a bit long, but he notified me and we were both on the same page, so to speak, so it wasn't a big deal.

If I may ask, are you now overdue for your flute? If so has the maker been in touch with you, or you with him? If not, then by all means, call or write him and check up on it. Be cordial, but find out where he is as far as your flute is concerned, and then go from there. Have you paid for it in full yet? If not, then don't until he lets you know that it's ready. That way, there's some incentive there to get the job done.

Nobody enjoys getting "done" calls, but it's certainly not out of line to call and politely check. Be kind, be courteous, be friendly. Don't lose your temper. Don't act like a spoiled five-year-old. Treat the maker the same as you'd like to be treated if the roles were switched, and I'd say that things should work out well. At least they seem to for me.

Is that better?

[River Otter]

Repeatedly contacting a maker is also usually counterproductive. For me personally it literally raises my blood pressure (which I am under doctor's orders to keep down) and leaves me sometimes with a feelings of despair and ennui, wishing I could make everyones' promises come true faster than is humanely possible. I can't and neither can anyone else. On some of those days I get repeatedly pestered I start wishing I was doing something else and usually get less flute making accomplished.

This is more in line with my expectation of how most makers feel, because it is most likely how I would feel if I was in the business. So, as a customer who wishes to be sensitive to such things, how often is "repeated contact"? How often could a customer contact you without raising your blood pressure? When does it cease to be following up and begin to be pestering?

[Casey Burns]

There are a few who call monthly, sometimes long before the promised delivery times. For some reason they always call Saturday mornings, usually before I have had my morning stimulants. Never during business hours.

There are places one can go (such as Doc Jones' flute site, eBay) if one just can't wait.

My point is that most of us makers prefer to spend our time making flutes and not answering the phone, since doing so doesn't help us make the flutes any faster and usually makes us feel bad. Best to just assume that it is in the queue somewhere behind several other waiting clients and that you will get yours eventually when its your turn.

This discussion reminds me of the book "Faster: the Acceleration of almost Everything." Everyones' expectations seem to be that since you can order something on-line, you should be able to get it quickly, especially if you put a little heat on the supplier or maker.

Unfortunately with carefully hand built instruments it has never worked that way, especially if you are getting one first hand from the maker. Some of us long time makers have waiting lists that go on for years.

And remember that we used to bury our flute boxwood in cow manure for 20 years before it was ready to use! We may have to revive that practice!

Casey

[Whistlin'Dixie]

My personal experience is that it's best to just let the maker contact you when the flute's ready. I don't think it's out of line to email a polite "So, how's the flute coming?" BRIEF message if about 2 months past the expected completion time. I wouldn't call, EVER.

One of my well-hidden (pet) peeves is to hear people say things like " Go ahead and give ____ ____ a call, what a swell guy, he and I spent over an hour on the phone chatting about wood, etc etc etc...."
A-hem, but did you ever stop to think that you might be using up his flute-making time doing that?!?!?!?!??!?!?!!?
Then wondering why they have such a long list and why they don't have flutes ready "on time", possibly because others are busy calling to chat about flutes, too....

I say let the maker do his work, brief email if a couple months pass without hearing from them, and be understanding in knowing that the maker is probably doing his best to get you the nicest flute he can possibly make since you are not giving him a hard time.....

And if you're just in a special kind of hurry, please don't discount all the nice new and used flutes Doc Jones has in his magical storehouse in Idaho......

M
(it works for me)

[Steamwalker]

Honestly, if a flute maker is several months past the due date he quoted and hasn't even contacted the customer about it, that to me would be a cause for concern.

[Blackbeer]

Well I'm with Mary on this one. I haven't ordered that many flutes from makers but of the four I remember ordering, all from different makers, I sure had no complaints. Of course I never remembered when they said they would be ready anyway and it was always a wounderful surprise to be told that the flute was in the mail. And I mean how many flute makers are there anyway. Not many, and quite a few of them are known by all here so I sure wouldn't have any reason to think they would abscond with the cash. As for contacting them around the time you think you remember them telling you it would be ready, well I just don't like to bug a craftsman. The only time I called anyone was back when Olwell was making bamboo flutes. I believe he is still cyberspacially challenged but it was the only way I knew to get ahold of him. And he was the one who kept talking. I just wanted to order a flute and hope he wouldn't ask me too many flute related questions. Oh I also called to order my (I mean Marys') whathisname. Anyway just kick back and take it easy, art cannot be rushed.

Take care

Tom

[sbhikes]

I used to work around the corner from a violin maker's shop. You could see the fiddlenecks drying in the window. I swear they are the same ones for the last 15 years. It must take forever to make a violin.

Anyway, I think my next flute will be a used one, if for no other reasons than I won't have to break it in. I'm quite worried I'll ruin the flute in the break-in period. But is it just me, or do some of the used flutes look crooked?

[River Otter]

Thank you, Mary. I'm of the same opinion regarding the email rather than calling, if the option is available. That lets the maker get to your inquiry on their schedule rather than yours so it doesn't interrupt their work. I can see waiting two months after the estimated time of completion to account for unforeseeable delays. But, would you wait the same two additional months regardless of whether it was originally a four-month waiting list or a two-year waiting list? Or do you feel that propriety would dictate more of a sliding scale?

[talasiga]

If a flute maker suggests a period of time that it will take to craft the instrument, it seems only polite to patiently wait until that period of time has passed before pestering them. But what is an appropriate length of time after the initial estimate has passed to wait before contacting the maker for an update, assuming they haven't contacted you first? A week? A month? Can it be determined as a percentage of the original wait time? After enough time with no word from the maker a reasonable person will start to think that their order had gotten lost or that the maker was dishonest and had absconded with their down payment, so what's an appropriate amount of time to wait before jumping to this conclusion?

If a flute maker says that something will be done by x/s/os and you are at least one day past that date (not including weekends and Christmas and the like), it is perfectly dignified and proper and accords with every standard of commercial and artistic interaction (since the Phoenicians) that you contact him or her about it.

How you contact him or her is a matter of your choosing and your method warrants respect. For instance you are perfectly entitled to phone the maker at a reasonable time (working hours in makers' time zone). I mean why does the maker give out hisorher phone number publicly? Is it just for potential customers but not for those following up on a delivery etc? That is an absurd proposition.

Here is a model coversation:-

client: hello Maker, its me Tally Welly ringing about my C flute .....
maker: oh hi there. Good to hear from you. I was gonna ring you this week cause my diary shows I would have your flute ready by about now.
client: yeah, so hows it going?
maker: there's been a few delays due to material supplies but generally I got good news for you. Would like me to call you back immmediately?
client: no no, thats cool. I got a good rate on this call.
maker: ........

[Berti66]

SBHikes wrote: Anyway, I think my next flute will be a used one, if for no other reasons than I won't have to break it in. I'm quite worried I'll ruin the flute in the break-in period.

There is no guarantee that you won't have to break in an used flute, if the flute has not been played for a while. But if you play it in carefully, there is no reason to worry about ruining a flute while doing so.
Its much simpler than you might think.

If you want to be sure, go for delrin
Good luck
berti

[Aanvil]

Geez, I hope it was't me...

Nope... pretty much right on time if I remember.

[talasiga]

...... For some reason they always call Saturday mornings, usually before I have had my morning stimulants. Never during business hours........

It may be that, like you, they work during business hours, and because, for them, fluting is a matter of high leisure, they excitedly ring you at the first leisure opportunity they get. That would be Saturday morning for most plebs, I guess.

I wouldn't do that because I am not a pleb.

[jemtheflute]

is it just me, or do some of the used flutes look crooked?

No, not just you - if you are looking at photographs, it could be simply the result of perspective - fish-eye lens effect, but it could also well be that any wooden flute not recently off the maker's lathe has warped - they are wooden!
Boxwood is especially and notoriously prone to warping, although I've seen a good few C18th ones that were still straight as a die. Even Cocus and Grenadilla can warp as well as crack, and it may not be due to any mistreatment, just the natural characteristics of the individual baulk of timber as it de- and re-hydrates in use and with age. Also, if joint lappings are not in perfect condition and trim, any perfectly sound instrument can droop a little at a joint. On some (less well made!) flutes, even with lappings set up optimally there can still be some flexing at the joint - I'm having precisely that problem with a cheap German jobbie I'm refurbishing right now - the tenons and sockets are rather short and the lapping beds therefore narrow: the foot joint in particular doesn't stand a chance of being really solid - wont leak, but rocks a bit and works its way off when using the foot keys!
Whether a warp is a problem varies - unless it is very pronounced, it is unlikely to upset the intonation significantly.

[sturob]

'm familiar with the expression "a watched pot never boils", but if the lid isn't percolating after half an hour or so I'm going to look to see if I remembered the water.

Which is why the real expression is so much more applicable to this whole when-to-pester-the-maker question. It is:

A watched pot never boils over.

I mean, sure, water has a high specific heat and takes a while to boil, but the common truncation of "over" renders the expression pretty vapid.

So sure, keep an eye on things, so to speak. I personally have usually checked in about once a year for several-year wait times, then again about a month before the targeted delivery time. As it gets closer, I tend to get more impatient. I also tend to email if the person uses email because they can always respond at a later time. The phone, while more immediate, seems more distracting.

Stuart

[sbhikes]

This may be a stupid question, but why do flute makers wait for orders before making the flutes? Or do they do that but when they are popular makers they simply have no lead time anymore?