Shall we resume saying how long we've been playing?

[jim stone]

we've followed this convention in the past.
When giving advice, especially to newbies,
say how long you'be been playing Irish flute.
We had a problem where people were getting
advice from folks playing a couple of months
or whatever, who weren't saying so.
Please let's continue it, as a courteousy
to those asking for help.

Of course longevity is no guarantee of good advice,
nor is relative newness necessarily a disqualification.
I've been playing hard for four and one half years,
in case anybody wishes to know.

Is that just for this life Jim, or can we count previous incarnations?

Past incarnations do count.

Note I wrote:

'Of course longevity is no guarantee of good advice,
nor is relative newness necessarily a disqualification. '

Folks have been saying the same thing by way of criticism
somehow! Repeatedly.

I'm convinced nobody is likely to dismiss advice that
really seems helpful because the giver is relatively
new, nor are we so moronic as to follow advice that
seems daft, because the giver has been playing
a decade or whatever.

No, this info is no proof of anything (surprise, surprise!)
but it can be helpful to a newbie to know whether
the info giver has been at it for two months or
twenty years. People who post the first time
may not have much experience with this
or any board. They are unlikely to search the
board to get to know the advice givers, who
may also be newbies both to the flute and
the board. No, it isnt 'bravado.'
Just a helpful courtesy to newbies.

No, it doesn't require giving a resume. You can do it
in maybe three or four words ('playing five years.')

No, it's not a substitute for common sense
or taking things with a grain of salt or.........

We have no squadron of Cossacks to enforce this.
Just something we've done in the past that's
proved easy and helpful.

[Denny]

maybe a point system

[sbhikes]

I think the natural feeling will be that if we feel compelled to put how long we've been at this that those who don't feel they measure up will be hesitant to offer advice.

I hope that people don't feel that way because as a beginner I would often rather hear from beginners who just had a break-through, or from others who can still remember what it's like to struggle, than from old hats who always say stuff that all old hats say.

[jim stone]

Nobody needs to hesitate. No question there is considerable
value in the input of people at the beginning. This practice
actually facilitates that. If I say I've been at it for
three months, I don't have to worry that people
will take me to be a Big Authority.

[Denny]

it'll be fine...

the old hats get tired of answering the same questions every week anywho

[talasiga]

.......
As for posting playing clips equating to the ability to give advice, I'm not sure that proves anything more than that the player is talented. I've known great musicians who don't have the personality and/or talent...to teach. Teaching does not always equate with expertise - sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't...and there is no correlation whatsoever with excellence and having the ability to interact with folks in a socially acceptable manner.

Gordon and Markus make good points about differing tastes, players of differing abilities providing advice to others at the same level, etc. I've had great advice for players I know to be excellent trad players, from new players, and folks of a similar playing level to where I think I am (I have no delusions as to my ability). I've also had bad advice from excellent musicians, newbies, and folks at the same level I am. A clip wouldn't have changed anything except...

Post away! I love listening to clips - they're fun to listen to and I'll likely pick up new variations on tunes. Clips and Snips hasn't had enough recent flute posts anyway. Hopefully, you all will improve my playing even if I think posting clips to prove one's ability to give advice a rather silly thing.

Eric

Yes. I agree.

I like listening to posters' clips and I am looking forward to the day I can afford to buy a PC and equipment that will enable my posting some.

I would like to post clips not so much to prove my prowess or my credentials but for the simple joy of sharing.

The idea that posting audio clips validate one's advice is inane. It is just as easy to concoct a fake clip as it is to fake advice.

The forums are lagely arenas of verbal interaction. I like it when both experienced and neophyte players express appreciation for some advice that I have posted, the merit of my posts obviously evinced directly or inferredly from the post itself and the readers' interpretation of it from their own experience and knowledge referents.

If someone here says I went to such and such a concert the other day , I won't turn around and demand they post an image of their concert ticket before I consider engaing in a discussion with them about the concert.

The benefit of the doubt is given because there is benefit in it.

[crookedtune]

Besides, what good are rules if you can't back them up with corporal punishment?

[talasiga]

Besides, what good are rules if you can't back them up with corporal punishment?

What good is a forum exclusively for the likes of Matt Molloy and Hariprasad Chaurasia if they are too busy to post .....

[cocusflute]

I think posting clips to prove one's ability to give advice a rather silly thing.

This is a silly thing to say. How else to validate one's accomplishment or one's ability to give advice worth listening to? Surely a person who can play well has more insight into playing well than somebody who doesn't play well? Wouldn't you trust what Harry says more than what I say? I would!

The idea that posting audio clips validate one's advice is inane. It is just as easy to concoct a fake clip as it is to fake advice.

Two issues here. Nothing else validates one's advice as well as a demonstration of one's accomplishment. Sure, a person could fake a clip- but that's like lying to one's lawyer. Why would anybody do that? So that people he doesn't know would esteem him in virtuality? The idea is too nutty to deal with.

The forums are largely arenas of verbal interaction.

Yada yada yada. Most people who post so often would be better off playing the flute more.

In the best sense of the word I think of this forum as a session. But since we don't have our instruments with us, we can only talk. Posting clips of our playing would be one way to overcome that, to share what we know and what we do.

[talasiga]

........Sure, a person could fake a clip- but that's like lying to one's lawyer. Why would anybody do that? So that people he doesn't know would esteem him in virtuality? The idea is too nutty to deal with.

............

It is too nutty to deal with in the sense that most jurisdictions would go nutty in trying to deal with the actual issue of clients lying to their lawyers.
I dare you to post a clip that demonstrates

1. you are experienced in legal advocacy
2. you have a breadth of experience that would validate your question as a question in good faith.
3. the parity between a poster and this public forum and a client and his or her lawyer (to whom the lawyer owes a duty of confidentiality).

[hans]

In the best sense of the word I think of this forum as a session. But since we don't have our instruments with us, we can only talk. Posting clips of our playing would be one way to overcome that, to share what we know and what we do.

A funny session ! I totally agree that sharing music we play would be the best thing for this forum session, and the limitation of the phpBB software NOT to allow uploads of mp3 and video files the biggest obstacle to make this forum more into a music sharing space. Maybe we need to move to myspace

But of course links to mp3 or video files can be put into posts. You just need to find some filespace to upload the file.

Is http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/flute.html the recommended space for tune snips? It seems to be a somewhat chaotic place to find things. I confess I never submitted to the site, since I prefer to keep some control of what I put on the web. I am also concerned that an email address is plainly visible in the page and in the HTML source of the page, making it an easy target for an email address harvesting bot.

Re: The original suggestion (topic title):
Unworkable and mostly meaningless. As meaningless as the number of posts someone has made on this forum (The Posts: ### should be scrapped!!). What do years of practise mean if you play perhaps once a week? Can you state how many hours of serious flute practise you got under your belt? Surely each person needs a logbook in which to enter the flute practise hours, and official exams every year or so which determine his/her ability to fly the flute. We need a Board of Assessors who can conduct these exams and award points, and use a five star system to be shown underneath your forum name. The Board of Assessors will be appointed by the forum militia, or the king himself. And I will bid you good day and keep playing in the woods. Follow the soft sounds and you find me there.

[hans]

It is too nutty to deal with in the sense that most jurisdictions would go nutty in trying to deal with the actual issue of clients lying to their lawyers.

Meanwhile the clients go nutty because the lawyers are lying to them.

(sorry total OFFTOPIC please ignore after reading)

[Flutered]

Here's another perspective on Jim's original comment: there's a world of difference between someone who has just taken up trad. flute AND trad. music at the same time compared to someone say, who has been playing whistle, fiddle or box for years, has a good knowledge of the music, how it goes and is now taking up flute.
The former is 'struggling' with two distinct facets which are intertwined; how to handle the instrument and learning how the muisc goes. The latter has plenty of tunes and knows how they should sound - hence big difference...

[johnkerr]

I've been playing hard for four and one half years,
in case anybody wishes to know.

Jim, commercials I've seen on TV while watching the ballgame suggest that if you find yourself playing hard for more than four hours you should contact your doctor immediately. I know that medical advice is frowned upon here, but I'm extremely alarmed to hear that you've had this condition for four and one half YEARS, so I hope an exception can be made in this case. Contact your doctor immediately, please. But do wipe that smile off your face first...

[Jayhawk]

How else to validate one's accomplishment or one's ability to give advice worth listening to? Surely a person who can play well has more insight into playing well than somebody who doesn't play well? Wouldn't you trust what Harry says more than what I say? I would!

Nothing else validates one's advice as well as a demonstration of one's accomplishment.

To be a bit contrary, I do partially agree with you. If I'm going to take a lesson from a player, I want them to be much, much, much better than me. Luckily, this is not a feat that is difficult to accomplish. However, just as importantly, they need to be able to relate to others in a humane way...I've seen far too many "experts", and some with phenomenal talent, drive neophytes away from something instead of helping them improve. When you are far along any path, the beginning becomes obscured unless you've been teaching new folks all along. Because of this, newer and middling players often will have advice that is useful to a newer player because they remember clearly having such issues themselves not too long ago.

In addition, having to "test out" one's ability will discourage free discourse and still provides no evidence that the player has the ability to read others and provide advice in a way that will encourage others instead of discourage them.

I highly value free discourse. You never know where gems of wisdom will come from.

Eric