Technical question about Pakistani flutes

Oreo · Post by **Oreo** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:57 am

I tried asking this the the sticky thread, but must be most people don't notice new things there, so please permit me to ask here:

One of the posts (in the sticky thread) here said that the flute seemed to “defy physics” (being incredibly out of tune). Is the problem with these flutes that the holes have been drilled in the wrong position, or are the dimensions of the bore all out of whack? Or both?

I can adjust the position of holes and reposition the end cork. But it is a lot harder to change the bore of an instrument.

Anyone have one they want to get rid of so I can try some extreme tweaks?

Oreo

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:14 am

I tried to do what you're thinking of doing...and failed. I do think there are probably some decent ones out there, but they're the ones selling for $198 not the $39 allegedly rosewood one I bought. Even then, at that price I'd go for a flute you know will work like a Burns folk flute, Tipple (at much less cost), etc.

As a little background, I've made PVC and bamboo flutes - decent enough to sell a few to a local folk music shop. I stopped simply because finding good bamboo was hard and I didn't have time to keep doing it because my playing became much more important to me.

Anyway, so I know about hole placement, size, undercutting, etc. I'm no maker, but I thought I could tame one of these beasts. My opinion is that the flute needed to be re-reamed, several of the tone holes needed to be closed up completely and put in a different position...but that would mean that part of the new hole would need to be cut into the area that was closed (or you'd have to close all the holes on one side and drill the holes on the side of that body section). The embouchure needed serious re-cutting.

I did not end up with a usable flute because I couldn't re-ream the sucker. It definitely wasn't worth the time or the $49 ($10 shipping added on). I sold it on a garage sale as a wall hanger for $5 which I considered a major moral victory.

Oh, one more thing, the wood was not well seasoned and I don't think it really was rosewood, either (at least not a rosewood I'm familiar with).

Eric

Sillydill · Post by **Sillydill** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:29 pm

Dear Oreo,

I've "successfully" redone two Pakistani D flutes and a fife. It is a "good" learning experience. But the ending results are still not very good flutes and consumed about 10 or more hours of work each.

Make sure to aquire all wood models for your experiment. The lined head/tuning slide are about impossible to deal with, less you have a milling machine.

Best of Luck! (You'll need it.

)

Jordan

P.S. The fife is a keeper for me. But I essentially rereamed it.

*The words in parenthesis are gross exagerations!

cocusflute · Post by **cocusflute** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:15 pm

Rod Cameron "successfully" re-worked Pakistani flutes and made them playable. He sold them, I believe, for $500, ten or so years ago.
Today for the same money you could probably get a better flute from a maker doing everything from scratch.

Oreo · Post by **Oreo** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:19 am

Wow. Hard to believe they could be THAT bad, but I do believe you.
Thanks for the information. I will save my money and my time by not trying to tweak Pakistani flutes!

Oreo

Sillydill · Post by **Sillydill** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:01 am

Get some PVC and follow Tipple's recipe!

Here: http://dougsflutes.googlepages.com/maki ... irishflute

It is a far more rewarding experience!

All the Best!

Jordan

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:13 pm

Good suggestion Jordan! PVC flutes are fun to build. Granted, Doug has mastered the art, so your flute isn't as likely to be a keeper the first time around, but it'll be playable and it's a great learning experience for hardly any money down.

Eric

Jon C. · Post by **Jon C.** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:04 pm

Oreo wrote:Wow. Hard to believe they could be THAT bad, but I do believe you.
Thanks for the information. I will save my money and my time by not trying to tweak Pakistani flutes!

Oreo

The problem with these flutes, like most low end German flutes, is that the conical bore is wrong. If the bore is to short it will effect the relationship of the first and second octave. If the bore diameter is to large or to small at certian points, under the respective tone hole, it can make that note either sharp or flat. I have managed to tune some of the German flutes, by re-reaming the bore, but this only works if you have enough wood to bore out.. Best bet is to stay away from the temptation of getting a cheap Pakistani flute and go for a beginner flute like HammyHammilton, Casey Burns, or Doug Tipple (did I miss any?)offer.
And PLEASE don't send the flute to me!!!

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:39 pm

earn a bit of success and they start gettin' uppity.

Doug_Tipple · Post by **Doug_Tipple** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:32 pm

What amazes me about the Pakistani flutes is how they can look so nice and still be so out of tune. Jon explained that the conical bore is incorrect on most Pakistani flutes. But surely, if they have the skills to make a wooden, conical-bore flute, they should have the skills to copy a good one. That is what many modern makers do, allowing for their own revisions and innovations. Why the Pakistni flutemakers don't bother to do that is a mystery to me. I'm sure that the Chinese (not being racist here) could copy a modern wooden flute in a heartbeat, if they wanted to.
_________________

Bart Wijnen · Post by **Bart Wijnen** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:58 pm

Doug_Tipple wrote:What amazes me about the Pakistani flutes is how they can look so nice and still be so out of tune. Jon explained that the conical bore is incorrect on most Pakistani flutes. But surely, if they have the skills to make a wooden, conical-bore flute, they should have the skills to copy a good one. That is what many modern makers do, allowing for their own revisions and innovations. Why the Pakistni flutemakers don't bother to do that is a mystery to me. I'm sure that the Chinese (not being racist here) could copy a modern wooden flute in a heartbeat, if they wanted to.
_________________

Well, ask a player of the Great Highland Pipes what he thinks about pipes made in Pakistan.............

Perhaps the Pakistani have a lot of skills except for copying?
But then, I used to play lawn-hockey as a kid and everyone wanted a 'Karachi-King Super' stick.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:59 pm

I'd bet that if they thought there was enough money in it they would do it.

Aanvil · Post by **Aanvil** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:18 pm

Bart Wijnen wrote:I used to play lawn-hockey as a kid and everyone wanted a 'Karachi-King Super' stick.

Only today its a Karachi-King Super Stick in D or Bb.

Chiff and Fipple Forums

Technical question about Pakistani flutes

Technical question about Pakistani flutes

Pak flutes