Origin of "the Claw"

[Terry McGee]

Hmmm, OK, what about calling the Siccama (& therefore Pratten) system the Ledge? That's where the interlocking takes place.

The rollers Jon reminds us of do not actually do the interlocking, but are intended to facilitate moving from one key to the other. So perhaps we should classify them firstly by whatever actually does the interlocking, then adding "with roller". Which reminds me that sometimes you see an independant tab crossing under the key shafts to affect the interlocking.

It's probably fair to say too that the Claw type has the Ledge as well, so the Claw is really a further optional addition. So does that give us four broad types, some [with options]:

Independant straight (as in many German flutes) [with roller/s]
Overlapping Hockey-Sticks [any options here?]
Ledge [with Claw or Roller/s]
Tab [with Roller/s]

Terry

[Jon C.]

Here is what happened when Benedikt Pentenrieder took the interlocking keys toooooo far!

And it is funny that the foot keys are not interlocking...

[Terry McGee]

That's sure a beauty, Jon! I guess like the German makers in general he didn't feel the need for interlocking foot keys. I find I simply cannot use the foot keys on most German flutes - if I can close the foot keys, my finger has lifted off R3.

Good example too of crescent keys used as an alternative to full rings. Poor old Clinton came up with a similar proposal to use a bar to drive the G key on a Boehm flute as a much cheaper option than ring keys on R1, R2 and R3, and got slammed by Rockstro for his trouble.

Have you tried to analyse the operation of the Pentenrieder? Can we get a bigger image - where is the original?

Terry

[Pekkos]

Seems to be this one

http://rs6.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/S?ammem/dcm:@field(TITLE+@od1(DCM+1038:+++Benedikt+Pentenrieder+++Flute+in+C))

/Anders

[Jon C.]

Seems to be this one

http://rs6.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/S?ammem/dcm:@field(TITLE+@od1(DCM+1038:+++Benedikt+Pentenrieder+++Flute+in+C))

/Anders

Yes, it is under lock and key at the Dayton Miller vault! Next one that comes up on ebay, is mine!
Jon

[Chiffed]

I wonder if there's a relationship between the development of pinkie keys on flutes vs. extension keys on clarinets. There are three decidedly different systems in use today (Four, if one counts Basset clarinets for Mozart), and they each have their advantages. I'm quite fond of the german 'big flat thingies with or without rollers' (after Adolf Sax), and the french system with extra things for the thumbs to do (keeps the bassoonists from getting smug).

BTW, the Pentenrieder keys look like early bassoon keys, for some reason. Maybe it's just me...

[RudallRose]

I like the Ledge

But am still wedded to Interlocked for the Rudall footkeys they made famous.
I might go with claw if there were more appendages.

[Terry McGee]

I like the Ledge

But am still wedded to Interlocked for the Rudall footkeys they made famous.

You mean the ones I'm now calling Ledge with Claw?

Problem with the term "interlocked" is all English foot keys are interlocked (closing C closes C#). Indeed, the Claw has less reliance on the interlocking (done via the Ledge) compared to the earlier Overlapping type and the later Ledge-only types, as Pudgie Pinkie presses both keys at the same time, automatically distributing the forces as needed. So movement in the wood or compression of the pads doesn't mean the foot will go out of regulation. Quite clever really. I'd concede it "looks" more interlocked than the others, even though it's in reality less.

Terry

[Terry McGee]

So, seems we have the normal upper C key, but that's about all.

The Siccama-like key with the crescent sourrounding hole L3 is lightly sprung upwards, but is held covering the Bb hole by a stronger spring on the L thumb Bb lever. So finger A and press the thumb key and you get Bb as in a normal flute. But now cover L3 (with the thumb key still pressed) and you get a G, rather than a flat Bb. So thumb key released you get a B note in the scale, thumb key pressed you get a Bb. G scale or F scale. Nice!

Seems to be a similar arrangement with the G#. The Siccama-like crescent key surrounding R1 is lightly sprung upwards, but is kept closing the G# hole by a heavier spring, probably on the horizontal bar crossing it. Pressing the usual L4 G# lever (with holes L1 to L3 covered) lifts that bar, permitting G# to sound. Closing R1 (with the L4 lever still pressed) plays F#. So you get an A scale if the G# lever is pressed or a G scale if not.

Now what is not so clear is whether the Long F key is also linked to that horizontal bar, perhaps offering more functionality. We may need to wait for Jon to get his from Ebay to find out (don't hold your breath!). Certainly though, both F keys (long and short) actuate the same F hole cup, as Tromlitz had done.

Anyway, fascinating stuff!

Terry

[Chiffed]

It looks like the Long F, Short F, and G# are interlinked - great for playing in C#, I guess...

[cajordan]

I'm new at looking at historical flutes .... and this is presumably a fairly ordinary key arrangement, but the seller especially points out "A nice feature of the flute is the ornate finish on the C key lever (see photo)."

e-bay item 150017192918

Do I get shot down in flames and embarrassment for thinking that looks more like solder than decoration

Chris[/img]

[Denny]

Do I get shot down in flames and embarrassment for thinking that looks more like solder than decoration

not this time

do try to not make this skepticism a habit