What's the best kind to use?
Thanks,
Carol
glue for keypads
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Jon C.
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Re: glue for keypads
I use Shellac flakes, I melt the flakes in the key cup and float the pad on.cskinner wrote:What's the best kind to use?
Thanks,
Carol
"I love the flute because it's the one instrument in the world where you can feel your own breath. I can feel my breath with my fingers. It's as if I'm speaking from my soul..."
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peeplj
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Carol, one other thing you might not know about:
This doesn't apply to kid leather pads, but if you wind up using "fishskin over felt" clarinet pads, poke a small hole in the side of the pad with a sharp needle before installing.
This will prevent the pad from ballooning up with moisture and losing its seating as you play.
I don't believe this to be necessary on leather pads.
--James
This doesn't apply to kid leather pads, but if you wind up using "fishskin over felt" clarinet pads, poke a small hole in the side of the pad with a sharp needle before installing.
This will prevent the pad from ballooning up with moisture and losing its seating as you play.
I don't believe this to be necessary on leather pads.
--James
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Loren
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Hi Carol 
My Suggestion would be to go for the liquid/paste shellac that comes in a tube, available from Ferree's I think, as well as some other suppliers. It's very easy to apply and store. Lasts a very long time, and is inexpensive. It also doesn't require heating or mixing to to apply, which is nice. Once it sets, it acts like other shellacs and re-liquifies when heated for pad removal, so no worries there.
I can't recall the name brand at the moment, but I'll do a search and dig it up for you. I need to order some more anyway
Loren
My Suggestion would be to go for the liquid/paste shellac that comes in a tube, available from Ferree's I think, as well as some other suppliers. It's very easy to apply and store. Lasts a very long time, and is inexpensive. It also doesn't require heating or mixing to to apply, which is nice. Once it sets, it acts like other shellacs and re-liquifies when heated for pad removal, so no worries there.
I can't recall the name brand at the moment, but I'll do a search and dig it up for you. I need to order some more anyway
Loren
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Loren
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Here ya go Carol:
http://www.giardinelli.com/product/Wood ... c=ASOSWXXA
If you do a google searce for "Micro Pad Cement" Or Micro Pad & Cork Cement" you'll find a ton of places you can buy this stuff on-line.
Two things about it: A) I would NOT suggest using this stuff as cork cement, don't even be tempted, even if the name does imply it can be used for corks. And, B) This Micro liquid Shellac does take a fair bit longer to fully set and dry than some other shellacs, however, this does have the advantage of giving you longer to install the pad, reinstall the key, and then properly seat the pad to the tone hole (without the need for pad sanding, most of the time), that faster drying shellacs may not offer. Once you have the pad seated the way you want, simply let the instrument stand for 24 hours before using, and you should be good to go.
In an emergency, you can probably get away with only waiting an hour or so, particularly if you've applied the stuff properly, which means using only a tiny bit, if you go overboard, and have shellac oozing out over the edge of the cup and sides of the pad, you've used far too much, and with this particular shellac, you'll be waiting forever for it to fully dry.
Good luck, and don't hesitate to shoot me a pm if you have any questions, of if I can help you in any other way Carol.
Best,
Loren
http://www.giardinelli.com/product/Wood ... c=ASOSWXXA
If you do a google searce for "Micro Pad Cement" Or Micro Pad & Cork Cement" you'll find a ton of places you can buy this stuff on-line.
Two things about it: A) I would NOT suggest using this stuff as cork cement, don't even be tempted, even if the name does imply it can be used for corks. And, B) This Micro liquid Shellac does take a fair bit longer to fully set and dry than some other shellacs, however, this does have the advantage of giving you longer to install the pad, reinstall the key, and then properly seat the pad to the tone hole (without the need for pad sanding, most of the time), that faster drying shellacs may not offer. Once you have the pad seated the way you want, simply let the instrument stand for 24 hours before using, and you should be good to go.
In an emergency, you can probably get away with only waiting an hour or so, particularly if you've applied the stuff properly, which means using only a tiny bit, if you go overboard, and have shellac oozing out over the edge of the cup and sides of the pad, you've used far too much, and with this particular shellac, you'll be waiting forever for it to fully dry.
Good luck, and don't hesitate to shoot me a pm if you have any questions, of if I can help you in any other way Carol.
Best,
Loren
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Loren
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Nope James, not the back of the pad, the Face of the pad - the side that goes to the tone hole My bad, I should have been more clear on that 
While I'm not a huge fan of pad face sanding myself, it is an accepted practice among woodwind repair technicians, and does have it's place. I learned the technique from Karl-Heinze Belz, known in Germany as "The Recorder Doctor", although he works on plenty of other woodwinds as well. The Mollenhauer company sent him to visit us at vH last year, so that he could learn the fine points of instrument voicing the vH way, as well as have a look at the way we approached things in general. Here's Karl on the left, in the black shirt, I'll leave it to you to figure out who the ugly mug on the right, wearing the shop apron, is
I was fortunate enough to spend a good deal of time with Karl, while showing him much of what we did at vH, and in return he was kind enough to show me some of his approaches to instrument repair, which I really appreciated, since Karl has many years of experience repairing wind instruments, and has some different, and equally valuable techniques and approaches from those I learned at vH.
So, with regards to the pad face sanding, Karl taught me that sometimes, it can be helpful to lightly sand the face of pads, after they are installed, when, for one reason or another, a good pad seal is not being achieved. There can be a number of reasons when this is called for, including: An unusually open grain on the leather pad surface, which can cause leaking, or a very slightly uneven tone hole sealing edge, and so on.
However, relating back to my comments with regards to my previous post: Some repair technicians will do a hasty job of repadding - not properly seating the pads - either they use too much shellac, or it dries and sets before they get the keywork reassembled, so the pad can't be properly seated to the tone hole. In this case the lazy repair tech will sand the pad level to the tone hole, rather than heating the shellac again for a proper re-seat. This is not the best approach, which is what I was getting at earlier, and using this liquid shellac can help in this regard, as it allows more time before drying.
Hope that clarifies a bit James?
BTW, I'm not suggesting Micro is the BEST way to go with regards to shellac for repadding purposes, I simply think it's a good simple alternative for those who are inexperienced or don't want to deal with all the mixing and/or heating. And, for the record, we used Micro most of the time at vH, on new vH instruments, as well as on used instrument repairs (mostly other brands), with very good long term results.
Loren
(Edited to reduce the size of the photo - Whoa! That was waaaay too big!)
My bad, I should have been more clear on that While I'm not a huge fan of pad face sanding myself, it is an accepted practice among woodwind repair technicians, and does have it's place. I learned the technique from Karl-Heinze Belz, known in Germany as "The Recorder Doctor", although he works on plenty of other woodwinds as well. The Mollenhauer company sent him to visit us at vH last year, so that he could learn the fine points of instrument voicing the vH way, as well as have a look at the way we approached things in general. Here's Karl on the left, in the black shirt, I'll leave it to you to figure out who the ugly mug on the right, wearing the shop apron, is
I was fortunate enough to spend a good deal of time with Karl, while showing him much of what we did at vH, and in return he was kind enough to show me some of his approaches to instrument repair, which I really appreciated, since Karl has many years of experience repairing wind instruments, and has some different, and equally valuable techniques and approaches from those I learned at vH.
So, with regards to the pad face sanding, Karl taught me that sometimes, it can be helpful to lightly sand the face of pads, after they are installed, when, for one reason or another, a good pad seal is not being achieved. There can be a number of reasons when this is called for, including: An unusually open grain on the leather pad surface, which can cause leaking, or a very slightly uneven tone hole sealing edge, and so on.
However, relating back to my comments with regards to my previous post: Some repair technicians will do a hasty job of repadding - not properly seating the pads - either they use too much shellac, or it dries and sets before they get the keywork reassembled, so the pad can't be properly seated to the tone hole. In this case the lazy repair tech will sand the pad level to the tone hole, rather than heating the shellac again for a proper re-seat. This is not the best approach, which is what I was getting at earlier, and using this liquid shellac can help in this regard, as it allows more time before drying.
Hope that clarifies a bit James?
BTW, I'm not suggesting Micro is the BEST way to go with regards to shellac for repadding purposes, I simply think it's a good simple alternative for those who are inexperienced or don't want to deal with all the mixing and/or heating. And, for the record, we used Micro most of the time at vH, on new vH instruments, as well as on used instrument repairs (mostly other brands), with very good long term results.
Loren
(Edited to reduce the size of the photo - Whoa! That was waaaay too big!)
Last edited by Loren on Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Loren
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- Tell us something.: You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free - Location: Loren has left the building.
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Loren
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Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free - Location: Loren has left the building.
No problem dude, just remember, less is more with Micro: This stuff works (hardens) by evaporation - the alcohol or whatever it is that is mixed in with the micro shellac, is what keeps it from hardening in the tube, and subsequent exposure to air evaporates the alcohol allowing the shellac to harden.
This is why using too much is a problem, the more you use the longer it takes to dry, particularly at the bottom of a cup, under a pad. Many woodwind repair don't like Micro because they haven't gotten hip to this, they simply plop a big blob in the cup, drop in the pad, with shellac oozing out everywhere, and wipe of the excess - wrong approach!! Use less than you think you need, I mean really. When dry the stuff is plenty strong for normal duty, so just a little dab'll do ya.
Loren
This is why using too much is a problem, the more you use the longer it takes to dry, particularly at the bottom of a cup, under a pad. Many woodwind repair don't like Micro because they haven't gotten hip to this, they simply plop a big blob in the cup, drop in the pad, with shellac oozing out everywhere, and wipe of the excess - wrong approach!! Use less than you think you need, I mean really. When dry the stuff is plenty strong for normal duty, so just a little dab'll do ya.
Loren