my flute seems sharp ?

[talasiga]

Frankly speaking, I cannot believe that there would be any flute maker out there who would be miffed that someone experimented with adjusting the cork or tried a different embouchure angle.

I think there is a bit too much preciousness floating about here.
My personal advice is leave the cork alone unless its radically out. Take Jim's advice regarding embouchure angle.

And finally, no one disagrees that it is good to contact the maker. There isn't even an argument about that is there? I think the contention is about a perception of disempowerment, no?

[JPcares]

Thank you all for this informative exchange. Very helpfull!!!

[Cathy Wilde]

<snip>I have learned the hard way that you can get a huge range of pitch variation just by the way you blow the flute. There ought to be a script for testing "too flat" "too sharp" posts ..... <snip>

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Loren]

Frankly speaking, I cannot believe that there would be any flute maker out there who would be miffed that someone experimented with adjusting the cork or tried a different embouchure angle.

I think there is a bit too much preciousness floating about here.
My personal advice is leave the cork alone unless its radically out. Take Jim's advice regarding embouchure angle.

And finally, no one disagrees that it is good to contact the maker. There isn't even an argument about that is there? I think the contention is about a perception of disempowerment, no?

Oh please (rolling eyes)

My comments have nothing to do with disempowerment. I am working on the (perhaps mistaken) assumption that the poster (and folks in general) would want the fastest and most accurate solution to the issue. In most cases, what you then need to know is: A) Where was the stopper location that the maker intended, B) What temperature was the instrument tuned at, and C) At that temperature what distance was the slide extended to reach A=440, or whatever tuning the instrument was intended to play at. Now, where are you going to get those specs more quickly (in the case of a living maker's instruments) than from the maker him/herself???


Without this information, you are simply groping around in the dark. Without these specs, simply handing the flute to another player to check for sharpness or flatness is irrelevant - another player may, or may not be able to play the flute more or less in tune, however this doesn't mean the flute is, or is not, set in the ideal general configuration for performance. Mostly likely ANY player not used to a particular flute, will blow it somewhat sharp or flat, certainly on some notes. And, as Walt Sweet mentioned in another recent and related thread, once you start making changes to one thing, it affects others: Change the stopper location, and you may very well need to change the amount of tuning slide extension, but that throws off the overall scale of the instrument, and it does so in an uneven way, because as you extend, or close the slide, the percentage of change from each note to the embouchure hole is different, and so on. This is why you need the maker's baseline specs I mentioned above, if you want to get your instrument playing optimally, as quickly as possible - you need to START with the flute in spec, get used to playing it the way it was designed to be set up, and THEN make adjustments (either to yourself, or the flute) if you are still having issues.

As for makers being upset about taking a different course of action, I didn't imply that at all, what I said was that some makers might find it irksome that non-makers, or other makers should comment on how to best resolve issues on a flute they didn't make (applies to living makers only, of course.) By all means, free to adjust your flute with a hacksaw or hammer if you want, I seriously doubt most makers will lose any sleep over it.

Honestly, it's no surprise to me that more top makers don't post here, why would they waste time arguing with those who have little or no relevant instrument making experience? I've had nearly enough of this BS myself.

Loren

[Wormdiet]

The question needed to be anwered is this:

Which is more likely?
a) An inexperienced flute player with an undeveloped (flat or sharp) embouchure or
b) A brand new flute, owned by said newbie, with a seriously maladjusted cork?

Surely there's no harm in checking for both, nor is there harm in suggesting either course of action. Hardly BS.

[Loren]

The question needed to be anwered is this:

Which is more likely?
a) An inexperienced flute player with an undeveloped (flat or sharp) embouchure or
b) A brand new flute, owned by said newbie, with a seriously maladjusted cork?

Surely there's no harm in checking for both, nor is there harm in suggesting either course of action. Hardly BS.

Yes, well, surely you'd know better than I would. And clearly you completely read, and fully comprehended my last post.......

Also, thank you for proving my points. This thread will, no doubt, motivate other makers to de-lurk permanently.

Loren

[BMFW]

I think I would agree with Loren insofar as the internet is not a great place to seek advice from faceless posters. As has been said on this forum recently in relation to the advice offered, the credentials of the posters are largely unknown. The credentials of your flute maker, on the other hand, should be well known. He really should be your first port of call. I hope some of the makers on this board will concur with Loren on this point.

The internet should be a place for discussions of a less technical nature - like "Isn't French tile grouting superior?" and the like!

[Jayhawk]

In most cases, what you then need to know is: A) Where was the stopper location that the maker intended, B) What temperature was the instrument tuned at, and C) At that temperature what distance was the slide extended to reach A=440, or whatever tuning the instrument was intended to play at. Now, where are you going to get those specs more quickly (in the case of a living maker's instruments) than from the maker him/herself???

Loren - first off I fully read and understood your post. I agree getting information from the maker, easy with email these days, is best so you have the baseline cork and slide out information. I do disagree that noting where the cork is originally and moving it a mm or two is going to end the world or destroy your flute - they're pretty darn easy to move back where they originally were. Also, your post makes it feel a bit like you need the makers permission to even use the tuning slide which I'm sure was not your intent.

Those issues aside, I find your information on temperature fascinating. I do know temperature will change tuning, but as a maker:

1) Is the instrument fully broken in when being fine tuned? If not, wouldn't tuning change once it is fully broken in?

2) Is the flute finely tuned only after being played long enough to reach full playing temperature? Just curious about this - it would make sense. The temperature of the room would seem to have less value than the temperature of a fully warmed/played flute.

Eric

[Wormdiet]

Loren - no personal insults intended. Nor did I intend to offer technical advice on a topic on which I am not conversant.

My point is merely this:
1) Embouchure is often at fault when newer players think a flute is out of tune
2) Getting an experienced player to try the flute can serve as a reasonable indicator that such is the case.

If w can agree on this, I don't see the point in any further sniping.

[Loren]

Loren - no personal insults intended. Nor did I intend to offer technical advice on a topic on which I am not conversant.

My point is merely this:
1) Embouchure is often at fault when newer players think a flute is out of tune
2) Getting an experienced player to try the flute can serve as a reasonable indicator that such is the case.

If w can agree on this, I don't see the point in any further sniping.

I certainly agree on point #1

With regards to #2, the answer depends: If the stopper is not in the proper place, or the flute is in some other way not as it should be, then having another player try the flute, is not necessarily helpful. Particularly if the other player doesn't own the same make and model flute.

And yes, I think this is a good point to leave things, at least for me: No offense Eric, but this is all feeling very unproductive from my perspective and consequently I am loath to delve continue this topic or delve into others. I think I'll move on while I'm behind.

Loren

[Wormdiet]

With regards to #2, the answer depends: If the stopper is not in the proper place, or the flute is in some other way not as it should be, then having another player try the flute, is not necessarily helpful. Particularly if the other player doesn't own the same make and model flute.

Fair enough - it would be difficult to disagree with this. Thank you for your insights

[Sliabh Luachra]

Why not do both?

Perhaps the best would be to ask the maker at what distance the cork should be placed. Then measure it on your flute. It's not a difficult operation at all (I'll talk you through it if you want). If it's off then monkey with it, if not . . . get a new set of lips. . . or take up the bombarde.

My wife kept telling me for the last two years that my playing was way to sharp. I couldn't pull the damn slide out far enough to please her. (It must be noted that my sense of pitch isn't great so it didn't bother me so much). It wasn't really a matter of embechure. I'd been playing for quite a while at that point and it had never been an issue before. One kind soul here suggested it might be the cork being out of place. I looked up the dimensions for my Hammy flute, found the cork on my flute was WAAAAAY out (about an inch, over the years of travel and playing it just kept slipping) and fixed it. Our marriage was saved.

Or maybe it's just your embechure. But you won't know for sure unless you eliminate all the other variables.

Mark

[DCrom]

Perhaps the best would be to ask the maker at what distance the cork should be placed, then measuring it. If it's off then monkey with it, if not . . . get a new set of lips.

Mark

Why not measure first?

I just checked my flutes a couple of days ago - I was surprised to find that in both my flutes the cork was off the makers' recommended distances.

My Jon C was 1-2 mm off - not a huge difference, but the bottom end seems a bit easier after I reset it to Jon's recommended spacing.

My Burns FF was more like 4 mm off. I tend to play flat, and before I moved the cork to Casey's spec (from his web page) I found I couldn't play at A=440 even with the head all the way in. Now that I've corrected the cork setting I still need to have the head all the way in, but I'm in tune (I think - no digital tuner, but I checked 1st and 2nd octave G and A against our tuned-last-month piano)

Of course, a lot *is* the player - both Limuhead and MurphyStout were able to play my FF in tune, even when I couldn't - but both my flutes seem to work better when I set them up the way the makers recommend. Who'da thunk it?