My last post.

David Levine · Post by **David Levine** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:50 pm

I can't stand censorship. I hated it when it happened to Andrew Kirby. Now it's happened to me.
It is possible that something I said hurt somebody else. That's life. I've been hurt by things people have said on this list but I never thought they should have been censored for it. Nobody who disagrees with me should be censored because they might hurt my feelings.
The accepted notion of free speech is that it extends to anything that can be said short of "Fire!" in a crowded theater. I doubt that anything I said created a dangerous situation. But if somebody says something silly I expect to be able to address that.
What I said might appear to have been thoughtless and needlessly cruel. But there are plenty of people able to take me to task for it. There was no need for the heavy hand of the censor.
If Dale assumes the role of censor on the grounds of etiquette then I'll be forever looking over my shoulder to see if what I say is acceptable to him. And I cannot accept that.
Bye everybody.

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:43 pm

That's a shame David. I also hated it when it happened to Andrew, and I understand your point.
A year ago or so, I thought this board was under a pretty strict censorship, but after spending some time on another forum, a swedish one, totally unrelated to whistles, flutes and music what so ever, I have changed my mind about this. I have come to greatly appreciate the freedom here on C&F.
On that other board, there are a bunch of rules, for example, you are not allowed to quote a quote or quote the post right above you. If you write a post on a subject which has been posted before, the thread is locked, and if you stray the least bit off topic the thread is locked or split. You also get warnings for relatively small things, and after a few warnings they block you.
It feels great to logg on to C&F after a while there.
I have come to accept that this is Dales board, at least a bit. I am a guest, and as long as I'm not paying for the service and he breaks the agreement, he can do whatever he likes.
It would be even nicer if this board was totally un-censored, but I don't know how that would work.
There has also been times when I have strongly disagreed with Dale or one of the other moderators. For example when Andrew was banished. I was outraged at that point. And I still think that Dale made a mistake. But ultimately, it's his decision.
I'm very sorry that you'll leave us as well David.

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:09 pm

Aw he**, David, I hate that. I guess I missed the post in question, but I'll miss you a lot more than I'd remember what it did or didn't say. (unless of course it was addressed to me -- & then maybe I don't want to know

!)

But I respect your experience and playing and miles logged -- in the 'real' world, nonetheless. And your occasional mildly curmudgeonly tone is like a dash of lemon juice in tuna fish -- it livens things up, ya know?

Anyway, I will miss the heck out of you. Godspeed, you know where we live, and I'll keep the Eb Hammy tuned up for ya.

George · Post by **George** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:35 pm

Again you feel your freedom of speech is being stepped on. This is a (!)Moderated(!) internet forum, says so when you sign up for membership. That said, I'm guessing Dale removed your post not because of what you said, but how you said it. I've read some of your posts on Andrew's expulsion, you said what you wanted in a reasonable way and Dale didn't hassle you. I hope you don't decide to leave, that's just silly.

Sincerely,
-George

pmcallis · Post by **pmcallis** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:40 pm

David,
I suggest that you reconsider your decision. You are a long time and highly respected member of this board. You bring a lot of knowledgeable and important comments on Irish flutes and Irish music to members whether they are "newbies or oldies". This board will be a lot less informative without you. I may have missed the offending post but we will all miss you and be less without you.
Paul

dwinterfield · Post by **dwinterfield** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:22 pm

I've no idea what you said, but I hate to see you go. I'm not sure I'd call it "censorship". The board is a private venue and my observation is that Dale tends to exercise a lot of restraint about unilateral edits. Better to "agree to disagree" and stick around.

Blackbeer · Post by **Blackbeer** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:48 pm

David, you must remember this is the new America. There is no controversy of any kind. We all smile and sing and dance and throw flower peddles and play double tubed flutes and harps and are as careless as new born children. This all happened way back when our heroic leader landed on an aircraft carrier and declared victory in Iraq. And then all the Iraqis started to smile and came up and hugged all our troops and reveled in their liberation from the dark lord. Now they all smile and dance along with us and we are so very happy and we don`t have any confrontations. You will get used to it, don`t worry. Remember you aren`t that far away from us that we couldn`t save you too..........

Take care and watch your back

Tom

MikeC · Post by **MikeC** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:49 pm

David,
Lighten up. If you leave, you'll be missed. I read your post; it was a little negative. While I don't necessarily agree with the censorship, I don't think you should take your ball and go home just because the referee made a call against you. Don't take it so seriously.
MC

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:50 pm

Cool, Tom.

Hey. Whatever happened to those Crystal...........................................................................................

withak · Post by **withak** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:53 pm

Censorship is when the government prevents you from saying things that it thinks are harmful. When you are saying things on a privately-run forum then the owner can allow or disallow whatever kind of speech he wants.

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:59 pm

David, I will just echo some of the posts above and say that I will miss your contributions and I hope you reconsider.

Withak, just because it's not First Amendment doesn't mean it isn't censorship. Have you ever heard of self-censorship? A current example of that would be virtually all major American newspapers not running the Danish cartoons. It's an editorial decision, but still a form of censorship.

Tom, ROTFLMAO. I sure hope that's the spirit in which you posted.

Jumbuk · Post by **Jumbuk** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:05 pm

David,

I saw your post. I thought your point was totally relevant and correct. However, it did seem likely that the topic would start a new thread of responses, and I think this was what Dale was reacting to. Having said that, I think he was being heavy-handed in removing your post and related ones.

It would be a pity if those of us new to the flute lost your experience and knowledge over something like this. I have persoanlly appreciated your contribution to at least one thread that interested me. Perhaps Dale could PM you to resolve this issue in a way that benefits everyone?

Blackbeer · Post by **Blackbeer** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:10 pm

I hope so too Chas though I don`t have clue what ROTFLMAO means. You have to remember I still farm with horses

Take care

Tom

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:18 pm

Blackbeer wrote:I hope so too Chas though I don`t have clue what ROTFLMAO means. You have to remember I still farm with horses

Take care

Tom

Ya got internet...

Roll
On
The
Floor
Laughing
My
A**
Off

Post by **Dale** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:22 pm

As you may not know, I've been getting a LOT of messages about the whole Avery matter and it's popping up in varoius threads. I think it's important to moderate that. So, when this thread, in which a guy is trying to sell a flute, developed into another Avery thread, I thought enough was enough and I deleted more or less everything that took in that direction. Heavy handed though it might be, I sit convinced it was the right thing to do and I'm not apologetic.

I've grown accustomed to this: As others have observed, this board is rather lightly moderated. But, no matter how lightly moderated it is, there's a subset of people who will regard it as censorship and be unable to take it. So it goes. I always hate to lose knowledgeable contributors, but I will never, ever operate an unmoderated board.

Dale