Chiff and Fipple Forums

hans wrote:Are any bansuris made which have a thumb hole for a better vented natural fourth (Ma)?
(Tonic 'Sa' being L1, L2, L3 closed [and thumb hole closed if there is one])

Are there any master players using a thumb hole?

Not that I know of (answer to both questions).

Probability of it also low, very low IMO because
1. aesthetically not desirable (in the tradition)
2. technically frowned upon (talking about "masters" by which I take it you mean "of classical")
3. would interfere with current left thumb placement in all of the SEVERAL grip types for large bansuri.
(see links in earlier posts here)

thanks!

If I ever get a chance to make bamboo flutes I would add a thumb hole.
Since there is no bamboo thick enough in Scotland I stick to making PVC flutes with thumb holes.

Aesthetically it makes little difference, there are other holes in the bansuri which are of questionable aesthetic value.

It would be frowned upon till the merits are discovered and some masterful player is championing such flutes.

The thumb placement may be a problem, as it breaks an established traditional hold. But what are the merits of holding the flute with the left thumb pointing towards the "North", top end of the flute? It looks quite stressful.

hans wrote: .....
Aesthetically it makes little difference.......

I said that was not aesthetically desirable within the tradition. BY which I meant in the tradition of music performance. The tradition generally appreciates a slid into perfect 4th when XXX OOO is the tonic. And a lot of Lydian raagas have as a passing note an "accidental" perfect 4th and there is a lot of play sliding around here. Have you listened to this stuff?

I have mentioned several times in this topic the trad. of folk bansuri.

Here is a live performance in a restaurant in Dublin Ireland on a small bansuri..
The clip stops just before the drummer joins in, I think. You can hear the drummer tuning his or her drum at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfi0jrLweCs

I have several bansuri--I love the music and the instrument, though I find Celtic music more accessible to play, so I've been working on that, to the detriment of any Indian music on the Bansuri. The 7th hole is a major stretch. I don't have much difficulty with the size of the holes on a low D whistle, but I went thru 3 bansuri before admitting to myself that even in low-ish keys, it's hard to cover that 7th hole. However, they all work beautifully as 6 hole flutes, just not covering the r4 (like the extra "c" foot holes on an Irish flute. IT tunes sound good on them (Jeff Whittier - "Bansijeff" is a good maker, reasonable prices I thought. no web site, but I think this is his email: Bansijeff at aol dot com). I'm also interested in hearing if anyone who, unlike me, is a pro who plays Celtic on the Bansuri.
Thanks for those beautiful links above!
Best,
Jay

I'm in the same bansuri boat, sort of - I've made some progress, but am running into issues of re-training my brain to hear music differently. I also don't quite have enough time to keep up with both, so just play around with bansuri on occasion in some of the
simpler ragas and play more ITM because its what I know. Pity, because with just a little bit of effort I was able to reach and consistently play the 7th hole on an E (sa) bansuri - I have large hands and thought that I should at least give it a go, because I can reach the holes on the larger bansuri's without a problem.

I wish I had more time for this stuff!

I have had a lot of private enquiries about bansuri lately.
I like this site I am linking now:

http://web.me.com/lyonleifer/Site/Lyon_Leifer.html

Lyon Leifer is, I believe, one of the first Americans to have indepth tuition and performance experience in bansuri (since 1965). He is also a "concert flute player" in the Western Music orchestral sense (Boehm flute).

I commend this site to you. I particularly find the topic

http://web.me.com/lyonleifer/Site/Bansu ... ssues.html

of great interest, partly because it demonstrates so well that the tradition is not a monolithic one but one with many variations (so typical of Mother India and Sister Eire) in both performance and instrument design .......

it appears that the chinese dizi
and the hindustani bansuri systems of key naming for flutes
may be cognate.

This is the phoenix thread...

Quick! Somebody fetch the matches ...