Keyed vs Non-keyed

[cyberspiff]

I'm new to flutes so please forgive my silly question.

I have my Doug Tipple tunable flute in D and am starting to get reasonably proficient at it. Well, at least I don't get dizzy anymore I'm now starting to think about getting a better flute that I can actually be seen in public with (just kidding Doug) and was wondering about keyed vs non-keyed models. There are just so many possibilities to choose from I get confused. I've tried to find as much on web sites as I can, but there is too much information for me to understand it all.

99% of what I play are session tunes, which I think is pretty much all I'll ever want to play. Is there a reason why I would want to get a 1,2,3,...,n keyed flute to play jigs, reels, hornpipes, etc? I just don't understand the differences between all the keys and such.

I've looked at my flute "bible" web page by Michael Eskin and it seems like the M&E Rudall and Rose Keyless in Delrin is in my price range and may be a good next step for me. I'd appreciate opinions from those with experience. Thanks...

[Blayne Chastain]

You can "get away" with a Keyless and do great... But my deal is... why? When you can get keys! Keys are fun! Rule of Thumb (and you'll be using that thumb for a key!), buy as many keys as you can afford! Uh, but I allready broke that rule... I've got a Copley 8 key coming in the next month or so (more like a month and a half - I'm counting Dave!) and I don't know that I can afford it!

A bit more on the serious side. I play in a session with a bunch of fiddlers so I'll be using those G# & D# keys a bunch (keys of A and E) - relatively speaking. They also play The Broken Pledge in D dorian. It'll be nice to have the F nat key for that - not to mention the low C...

It's a good thing that keys on a flute are attached. I'm always loosing my car keys!

More keys please,

[madfifer9]

Maybe it depends on how much money you have at your disposal. My keyless Ormiston in D cost a thousand bucks as is. So, I'm keyless. I kind of like keyless, there's no pieces to break off.

I'd love to have a C nat, though. I'd be in heaven with that.

Oh, and maybe an F nat.

Linda S.
madfifer9

[Steampacket]

I play only Irish traditional music on the flute and have virtually had no use for the key's on my Williams 4 key D flute. I have a keyless flute too now and it's just fine. F natural can be had by half-holing so for Irish tunes a good keyless is all I need. There's so many great trad. Irish tunes out there to learn, so as regards the tunes that need keys it's just to transpose them if you really want to play them, or take a breather when the fiddlers play them in a session. Keyed flutes look cool, but they can also be like regulators on the pipes, just expensive eye candy that's hardly ever used enough by your average musician to warrant the expense. Of course if you play other music on the flute besides Irish trad. then, fair enough you may need a keyed flute

[jim stone]

Dave Copley will make you a flute with just
a C nat key, I believe, and that's one key
you will use plenty in ITM. Best

[Antaine]

i have a keyless flute and am just starting out, but i remember when ordering my pipes (the ones i do use the regulators on, thank you very much... )each key was an extra $60 or so, and I had an option of four (or none) Cnat, Bb, G#, and Fnat. I looked at the music i play and saw an immediate need for Cnat and Fnat (the chanter's in D) but not so much for the others. I ordered with two, and regret not going for the whole shebang as i'm now looking at shipping my chanter back to have the extra two keys put on (two years after i got the chanter, so two keys sufficed for a long time).

anyway, that's my take on keys and completeness of sets...why buy one when you can get two for twice the price?

[spittle]

Another thing to consider cyberspiff, is the world of cross-fingering and half-holing. Using 'non-standard' fingerings (with effectiveness varying signifigantly from one flute to the next), you can fairly easily hit many of those sharps and naturals on a keyless when Irish tunes stray into different keys.

I have a friend who recently sold a 6-key Noy (very nice flute), because he just wasn't using the keys. He's getting two Olwell keyless flutes (in different keys) for what he sold his 6-key for. Cost (and waiting time!) is not an insinifigant factor as you've already seen. I personally like the simple elegance of a keyless flute, and while some keys might be useful, they definitely aren't neccessary for Irtrad.

Case in point are many professional players who either play keyless flutes or who go to sometimes drastic lengths to remove, or not use the keys they have. On the other side are many great viruoso players who use keys judiciously. Oh, did I mention it's a personal-choice thing?

Regards,
- Ryan

[sturob]

Yeah, I disagree that you'll use the Cnat key a lot for Irish traditional music. Good flutes play a fine cross-fingered Cnat in both octaves. And, usually, I think the somewhat-cloudy timbre of the cross-fingered Cnat works and is actually somewhat desirable.

I have both keyed and unkeyed, and I find myself playing the keyless more. That's not to say keys are bad, but they're definitely not necessary UNLESS you're going to try to play in weird keys with fiddlers. Or with whoever, I guess.

Stuart

[peeplj]

I like the way Hammy Hamilton handles it.

You can get a keyless flute much faster than a keyed one (8 months vs 2 years), so he'll go ahead and sell you a keyless to play during the 2 years while your keyed flute is being made.

Then he takes back the keyless body and credits it against the price of the keyed body.

I like having the keys available, and I do use them. That said, most of the tunes I play can be played on a keyless flute just fine.

If you think you might ever be interested in learning to play any other kind of music on your flute, you will need the keys.

--James

[meemtp]

Keys are also a hassle maintenance wise. You have to cover the pads when oiling to keep them from absorbing oil, they can leak, springs can wear out etc. I've been playing the flute for 5-6 years now and haven't felt the need for keys yet. Being able to play in C and F is good for song accompaniement, but not necessary for dance music. Of course, that said, I've never worried about not being able to play those fiddle tunes in A, because I also play the fiddle! It all comes down to how much candy you want. If you've got the money, don't care if you don't use them alot, but will enjoy having them anyway then go for it!

Corin

[Cathy Wilde]

I hardly use the keys on my 4-key at all. In fact, I just got a 6-key and am having a devil of a time figuring out/changing my cross-fingerings to use them. And they are kind of a pain to maintain .... springs always seem to need retensioning, and a leaky key can really make your life miserable.

[jim stone]

Yeah, I disagree that you'll use the Cnat key a lot for Irish traditional music. Good flutes play a fine cross-fingered Cnat in both octaves. And, usually, I think the somewhat-cloudy timbre of the cross-fingered Cnat works and is actually somewhat desirable.

I have both keyed and unkeyed, and I find myself playing the keyless more. That's not to say keys are bad, but they're definitely not necessary UNLESS you're going to try to play in weird keys with fiddlers. Or with whoever, I guess.

Stuart

I agree that a C natural key isn't necessary;
also that the cross-fingered C natural
is sometimes desireable.
But the C natural key can often simplify fingering
considerably. It's best to know how to
play keyless first, I think; the key
shouldn't be a crutch, just an option.
But then it's quite useful, IMO., in ITM.
I use it frequently, anyhow. Best

[Alfy]

I play a keyed flute almost all the time, but I would like to second Stuart on the advantages of not using keys. C natural has a lovely tone when well done. Half-holing can result in really tasteful slides. If you have keys and never learn to do anything else you will miss a lot of the color that cross-fingered and half-holed notes can give. Also, changing between a keyed note and a cross-fingered note or half-holed note as you go through the tune the second time can add a lot of interest.
For the person wanting just a C natural key, several flutemakers can also just give a side hole for the left thumb to give a fingered C natural with no key and no fuss - it's also great to slide into from a B. It's cheap and there is no pad to leak. Terry McGee started doing it a year or so ago and Skip Healy has been doing it for many years.

Regards,
Alfy

[sturob]

Alfy! Don't tell me you're going to join the Gordon-Stuart Mutual Admiration Society. We're being civil and cordial on TWO threads now!

Oh my gosh!

OK, people, I'll have you know that Alfy and I kinda disagreed on another thread. But look here! We're being gracious and civil. It can happen.

Stuart

[Loren]

Flutes are tools, tools to achieve a musical end - to play the music you want to play. So, figure out what music you want to be able to play (ITM, Scottish, Bretton, Pop, Jazz, Blues Zydeco.....whatever), and then choose the best tool for the job. If the music you want to play is going to require more than the occasional accidental, you'll likely be frustrated by not having the keys. If you are mostly playing ITM, you'll likely find keys wasted money and more of pain than anything else.

Choose the right tool for the job, it's really pretty simple.

Loren