Chiff and Fipple Forums

I've checked previous threads about allergies to Blackwood flutes, but I was just wondering how the allergies tend to manifest. I've been playing my Blackwood flute for 20 years (yikes, I really should be better at it by now), but out of nowhere a few weeks ago after a practice session my bottom lip was bright red and a little swollen, and then a burning feeling set in. I put the flute aside for a few days (the feeling didn't go away) and when I picked it up again the intensity worsened, and after about a week I had blisters on my lower lip. Does that sound like a typical allergic reaction? Also, once you have such a reaction, how long does it take to go away? My dermatologist, who thinks toothpaste is more likely the irritant, gave me some ointments for it, and it is improving but is nowhere near back to normal. I haven't played any wind instrument at all since then. Even the whistle seems to irritate my lips, I assume because they are not healed yet. I haven't changed my toothpaste—all that's different is that I haven't played any wind instruments and I've used the hydrocortisone ointment; I start a different one next week). So I guess I am wondering if it is the Blackwood or if the symptoms would suggest something else. I would not take any comments as medical advice, btw. Just wondering about others' experiences. Thanks!

I use these on my cocus, and my Blackwood flutes. Flute Lip Plate Shields. I get mine from Sweetwater, but they're available on Amazon. Easy to clean and sterilize (in case it is a cold or cold sore virus). Reduces contact with the flute. YMMV.

Bob

I've cautioned people before:

"Sensitivity can result in a prolonged or lifetime *acquired* allergy to blackwood (a common flute wood), or members of the rosewood family. It's also not limited to lip sensitivity (which can be mitigated by a lip plate), but some individuals will react where their fingers handle the instrument as well."

Tried to post more, but got a "500 Internal Server Error"

Contact dermatitis is the most common response.

Following are quotes from the Wood Database

Wood Database wrote: What is a Sensitizer? You’ve probably already heard the term
desensitized—usually in reference to violent movies or images—meaning that we start off as
naturally being sensitive to something, and upon more and frequent exposure, we become
less and less sensitive to its effects.

Well, with some woods that have been classified as being a sensitizer, the opposite
is true - the more we are exposed to a wood’s sawdust or other fine particles, the more sensitive we get to its exposure, and the more severe and adverse the reactions become. If you ever have an allergic reaction to any wood that has been identified as a sensitizer, use extreme caution in handling or using that species (and related species) in future
instances. Some have reactions so severe that they simply have had to stop and discontinue using certain wood species altogether. (Cocobolo is notorious in this regard.)

Woohoo - I think I managed to break down & edit my text to conquer the great 500 Internal Server Error.

African Blackwood is Dalbergia melanoxylon.

Head down the chart at the Wood Database for sensitivity to the Rosewood family of
Dalbergia:

https://www.wood-database.com/wood-arti ... -toxicity/

4-star irritant, sensitizer, asthma (hands, eyes, lungs).

Here's a post from our own "moderatorer" Nanohedron
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewt ... 7#p1213077

Loren has a post right after that one, as well as this:
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewt ... 0#p1244470

This thread might not make you feel any better:
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewt ... 2&t=114089

It's been a long time since I've posted on this forum so I've forgotten how to do individual replies, but I want to thank everyone who took the time to respond to my concerns. Kkrell, thanks for all those links as well. I suppose I should wait until the damage has repaired itself and then maybe look into lip plates. I am kicking myself now for selling a nice creamy boxwood flute I used to have!

Again, thank you all.

That list is interesting Kevin...who knew Cocus and European Boxwood would both rate 2 stars on this scale. The cocus I can understand, but I would have thought European Boxwood would be 1 or zero stars.

Eric

carrie wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 7:48 pm I've used the hydrocortisone ointment; I start a different one next week

Try not to get it on the skin of your face if you can help it.

I occasionally used to use this ointment for eczema, and once smeared a bit on my face when I pushed a strand of hair out of the way whilst applying it. I spent the next four months unable to put anything except plain water on my face due to perioral dermatitis.

Obviously it doesn't happen to everyone, but the doctor said the ointment is a well-known trigger for PD and I know from experience that it's a proper PITA, so it's worth trying to avoid it.

Good luck with your flute, I hope you manage to get over the sensitivity issue.

Thanks for the tip and the good wishes!

A strip of scotch tape where the lip plate would go, the top of the strip creasing the hole, will protect you. It's very inexpensive and you can do it in 30 seconds. If it were me I would change my toothpaste What's to lose?

jim stone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:32 am If it were me I would change my toothpaste What's to lose?

Fair point. But if it is improving without the change . . . tricky. And thanks for the tape idea. I saw that in other threads and intend to try that at some point.

Hey, carrie! Been a while.

carrie wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 7:48 pm...a few weeks ago after a practice session my bottom lip was bright red and a little swollen, and then a burning feeling set in. I put the flute aside for a few days (the feeling didn't go away) and when I picked it up again the intensity worsened, and after about a week I had blisters on my lower lip. Does that sound like a typical allergic reaction?

If that's what it is, which is what it sounds like, then yes. I know it too well.

kkrell has kindly saved me the trouble of crafting a new screed:

Here's a post from our own "moderatorer" Nanohedron
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewt ... 7#p1213077

Sensitization's an important topic for me. I hadn't heard of sensitized fingers until this thread, but I can't say that I'm all that surprised.

Hi Carrie, it’s been a while, hope you’re doing well aside from this reaction.

Regarding wood allergy symptoms: Redness, yes. Tingling yes. Burning, yes. Blisters, sometimes. Cracks in the skin and/or deep, painful Fissures, has happened to me multiple times.

It does sound like your dermatitis is most likely related to your Blackwood flute, particularly in light of the timing in both cases. Question: Had you recently oiled the flute before the first occurrence?

How long does it take for symptoms to completely resolve? In my case it took weeks, as in over a month after the onset of a serious reaction. Not fun.

By all means try a lip plate barrier of some sort, which does work for some people. OTH, the reality is that for some, once sensitized, they end up having to avoid all contact with the offending substance going forward. It’s a drag, but better than becoming increasingly sensitized.

Hope you feel better soon!


Loren

Ah, my old friends Nanohedron and Loren! (Jim Stone, Jawhawk, and kkrell, I remember you as well, and thank you again for your help!)

Loren, I remember your woes with allergic reactions and hope you have found a beautiful instrument that works well for you. I have not oiled the flute recently, so unfortunately I can't attribute the cause to that. (This is my 6-keyed Olwell flute, so I am really hoping to find a way to continue playing it.) Thanks for sharing what I might expect in the way of healing time.

Nanohedron, I either didn't know or forgot about your allergic reaction. Hope you, too, have found a way around it.

Thanks and best wishes all around!

carrie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:39 pm Nanohedron, I either didn't know or forgot about your allergic reaction. Hope you, too, have found a way around it.

It was a real drag, and it was only getting worse with each contact. Burning, purple skin and weeping blisters? No thanks. I had the advantage of being able to grow a soul patch, but it made me look odd. For me, a sterling silver lip plate did the job perfectly; all else were stopgaps. Not cheap whether retrofit or new, but a plate's been well worth the investment for my purposes. Plus it looks sharp and properly finished, which counts. YMMV.

I've declined many an offer to try out someone's flute when wood contact with my lip was an issue. And time away doesn't make any difference: after about a 10-year period without bare contact, I tried a plateless rosewood flute and there it was, right away: The Burn. Right then it was time to stop. Once sensitized, you're sensitized for good, and this will likely not be confined to the Dalbergia species alone. If you intend to keep playing, some kind of skin-neutral barrier will be needed.

All the best to you!