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Flute Embrochure
Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:35 pm
by JTU
Good Morning or Good Evening,
I am in the process of attempting to transition from whistle to flute. Been at it about a month and I am getting somewhere. My biggest problem at the moment is running out of air far too quickly. It’s not a physical issue as I have no difficulty on a whistle and if using a whistle with some back pressure I can easily manage Part A or Part B of most tunes with one easy breath. On the flute I am gasping for breath after a bar or two.
It is starting to warm up where I am (Spring is here in the Southern Hemisphere) and I have begun to play in different attire, e.g T-shirts. This has alerted me to the fact I seem to be wasting air as I can feel my breath on my bare left arm as I am playing. Clearly more air is missing the Embouchure than being directed into it. Am I correct in assuming I am blowing too hard and not directing my blowing concisely enough? Can someone who can really play try bare arm playing to see what happens?
Thanks in advance for your help.
By the way once I decided to try the flute I wanted to get a decent one having realised that trying to learn on a questionable instrument was going to end in tears. Therefore being a firm believer in supporting local (relatively speaking) manufacturers I opted for a Terry McGee flute in delrin. Very pleased I did.
Cheers
JTU
Re: Flute Embrochure
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:17 am
by Gromit
This may help, it's the best video I've seen on forming an embouchure -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goCd1mEWsWs&t=565s
Terry McGee has some helpful info on his website
Re: Flute Embrochure
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:53 am
by Average Whistler
I am on a similar journey as you, although with a year head start, so I will offer my experience to you:
1. My compliments to you on starting out with a good flute. I initially bought an inexpensive flute to dip my toe. After several months I bought a much better flute and my tone and playing improved immediately. I kept my initial flute and I play it whenever I start to doubt if I needed to spend the money on a new flute... no doubt!
2. I found that with daily playing my mouth muscles got stronger and after several months I could play with a tighter embouchure. The result was better tone and much less air required to produce it. I was cautioned that it would take me 6 months or more to develop a reasonable tone and embouchure, and while YMMV, it does take time, but it does come. I started with enough air for about 4 bars, now I can get through Part A or B on one breath (with the repeat if it is fast!).
Hope that helps!
Sincerely,
Average Whistler, and now an average flautist
Re: Flute Embrochure
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:41 am
by Conical bore
This is normal and it will get better. The first few months when I started on flute, I had to stop frequently during practice because I was getting dizzy and lightheaded. It takes time to train the small muscles in your lips to form a good tight embouchure so you're not wasting air. Some of the airstream is still going to travel past the flute even with a focused embouchure as it splits across the far edge of the embouchure hole, so I wouldn't worry too much about feeling it on your arm. You're not supposed to blow all the air into the embouchure hole.
Use your ears to judge how well you're doing with tone, and the embouchure will come along as your tone improves. Practicing long tones will help, but I'm lazy when it comes to "correct practice" so I just played tunes and worked on my tone. This can take a while, so be patient and keep at it! I don't think I was really happy with my embouchure until I had been playing for a year or two, and it's still a lifetime process of trying to improve, or at least not backslide.
Re: Flute Embrochure
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:52 pm
by Cyberknight
JTU wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:35 pm
Good Morning or Good Evening,
I am in the process of attempting to transition from whistle to flute. Been at it about a month and I am getting somewhere. My biggest problem at the moment is running out of air far too quickly. It’s not a physical issue as I have no difficulty on a whistle and if using a whistle with some back pressure I can easily manage Part A or Part B of most tunes with one easy breath. On the flute I am gasping for breath after a bar or two.
It is starting to warm up where I am (Spring is here in the Southern Hemisphere) and I have begun to play in different attire, e.g T-shirts. This has alerted me to the fact I seem to be wasting air as I can feel my breath on my bare left arm as I am playing. Clearly more air is missing the Embouchure than being directed into it. Am I correct in assuming I am blowing too hard and not directing my blowing concisely enough? Can someone who can really play try bare arm playing to see what happens?
Thanks in advance for your help.
By the way once I decided to try the flute I wanted to get a decent one having realised that trying to learn on a questionable instrument was going to end in tears. Therefore being a firm believer in supporting local (relatively speaking) manufacturers I opted for a Terry McGee flute in delrin. Very pleased I did.
Cheers
JTU
I was exactly where you are a few months ago (transitioning from whistle to flute), and I found it quite frustrating. I'm still figuring out embouchure and I'm definitely nowhere close to being at the level I want with it, but it's gotten a lot better. What worked for me was 1) watching a ton of videos of people playing the flute and trying to imitate them, and 2) a ton of experimentation. Randomize your embouchure every now and then and see what changes. Throw things at the wall until something sticks. What eventually worked for me was to play with my lips slightly farther away from the blow hole than I was inclined to do, and to focus on the very tip of my upper lip to make sure it's pointing down and not out (basically tightening it against my teeth and letting it jut out over them while still pointing downward). This finally allowed me to play without gasping for breath or being too flat.
And this is just a start for me, of course. I'm sure I'll keep changing/improving my embouchure and it could end up completely different. And for you, your "aha" moment could be something totally unrelated. Everyone has to find it for themselves, I suppose.
Re: Flute Embrochure
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:39 am
by fintano
There was a discussion about Baroque flute embouchure a while back (2018). It may be helpful.
viewtopic.php?p=1205380
Re: Flute Embrochure
Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:08 am
by Bill Wolfe
A couple years after I began trying to play Irish on the whistle, I lucked into a middling-good simple system flute. I had just the kind of trouble you describe getting sound, much less music, out of it. I went to a local music store, rented a cheap silver-plated Boehm flute, and took beginning flute lessons for a few months. In retrospect, it was a great, even inspired, decision. In the 40+ years since, my tone and my thinking about Irish flute tone, have evolved and continue to evolve. Having a basic foundation was a big help. I consciously forgot everything I was taught about articulation and phrasing, and in any case I didn't go very far at all with the classical lessons. But after a few months, I did learn to get a decent basic tone from the Boehm flute that transferred directly to playing Irish music on the simple system.
Re: Flute Embrochure
Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 3:01 pm
by The Danish Piper
I really liked the replies to this thread.
The embuchure, is a thing that I am working on as well, as a new flute player.
From what I read and experience, it seems much like @cyberknight said
Cyberknight wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:52 pm
Everyone has to find it for themselves, I suppose.
I am looking very much forward to read more general advices, from experienced players.