Chiff and Fipple Forums

I need info about Olivewood as a flute wood. I've never seen an Olivewood flute, much less played one. I've played only blackwood, cocus, and sometimes boxwood flutes. Can someone knowledgeable fill me in on its properties? Thanks

I'm not sure I qualify as a "knowledgeable" person, but I did own and play an olivewood flute for a while (the J. Gallagher that's for sale on the IFS, actually). The density and feel are similar to boxwood, and it has a nice fine grain (like boxwood). It is often beautifully figured. It's a bit more sensitive than blackwood and cocuswood to hygrometric changes, and some makers (such as J. Gallagher) seal the bore with epoxy for that reason. But it's not as sensitive as boxwood, and it doesn't warp like boxwood can, at least not in my (limited) experience.

As for tone, I've never played two identical flutes that differed only in the wood they were made from, so I can't comment on that.

Thanks! From your post it sounds like olivewood is lighter than blackwood. 'As for tone, I've never played two identical flutes that differed only in the wood they were made from, so I can't comment on that.' I've never played two identical flutes at all, but I can generally tell 'under my ear' whether a flute is made of blackwood or boxwood. I can't tell blackwood from cocus, though. Grateful for your impressions, if you will, or an 'educated guess.' We seem to be interested in the same music, by the way. Thanks again.

Hi Jim,

I have a good friend with an Olivewood Winward flute, which is a joy to play. Definitely less heavy than blackwood...more on par with cocus (at least antique cocus, which I find lightweight). Sound-wise, I have no clue if it sounds any different than other woods by the same maker, but it's a seriously good looking wood.

Flutern...PM me about that olivewood flute on IFS.

Thanks,
Eric

jim stone wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:19 pm Thanks! From your post it sounds like olivewood is lighter than blackwood.

Yes definitely! According to The Wood Database, the specific gravity of olivewood is .99 whereas boxwood is .98, cocuswood is 1.16 and ABW is 1.27. Of course there is variation but it's a pretty good indication and matches my experience with those 4 woods.

Steffen Gabriel offers Olivewood along Blackwood and Mopane and here's what he says about this wood on his website:

Olive wood, unlike the other available woods, comes from Europe. It is comparatively light, yet dense and oily, has a pleasant smell and a very lively grain. It is slightly softer than boxwood, but has a similar feel to boxwood. In terms of sound, I cannot find any disadvantages compared to tropical woods; a flute made of olive wood sounds just as lively as one made of grenadilla or mopane. It is a good alternative to tropical woods, especially from an ecological point of view, as well as for people who are looking for a very light flute (weight saving compared to grenadilla approx. 15%).

And yes, it does smell like olive oil, especially in summer

Edit : some olivewood also comes from Africa.

Appreciate these posts! And here we have a
comparison between two identically similar flutes from the same maker, except one is blackwood and one is olivewood, played by a pro. He appears to prefer the latter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-IwJItkcXQ

I received a 6-key narrow-bore R & R model flute made in olivewood by Steffen Gabriel last summer, and I absolutely love it.

Previously I'd only ever played big, chunky Pratten-style flutes made from blackwood. My last flute in particular sounded great but weighed a ton.
The new olivewood flute is by far the most comfortable flute I've ever played, and despite what one would expect from the wood and the narrow bore, it still packs a big punch (the low D is nice and full and the low E is probably the best of any flute I've played). I've heard some people say that olivewood flutes tend to sound brighter than comparable flutes in blackwood, and I would say that's likely true, but I'm not complaining.

For anyone looking for a light and comfortable flute, I'd strongly recommend contacting Steffen. I couldn't be happier with mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9GyAz2jrVY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcz9rF5MA1I

The Sporting Pitchfork wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:06 pm For anyone looking for a light and comfortable flute, I'd strongly recommend contacting Steffen. I couldn't be happier with mine.

He's my latest favorite flute player, that's for sure.

Olivewood is a pretty popular wood for high-end recorders. You see African blackwood/grenadilla in recorders a lot (and it’s almost universal in clarinets) but I don’t think I’ve heard of a boxwood or mopane recorder. Which also makes me wonder about why plumwood, pearwood and cherrywood, very popular in recorders, are not seen in Irish flutes. It can’t be a matter of timber length, because tenor recorders are about the same length as D flutes if not longer. Is it just that the black is so traditional?

NylonFlute wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:44 am Olivewood is a pretty popular wood for high-end recorders. You see African blackwood/grenadilla in recorders a lot (and it’s almost universal in clarinets) but I don’t think I’ve heard of a boxwood or mopane recorder. Which also makes me wonder about why plumwood, pearwood and cherrywood, very popular in recorders, are not seen in Irish flutes. It can’t be a matter of timber length, because tenor recorders are about the same length as D flutes if not longer. Is it just that the black is so traditional?

Traditional may be the answer. There is cultural inertia in a genre of music like this that looks backwards more than forwards. Not just the tunes but the instruments we play; these copies or minor improvements on a 19th Century flute design. Or in some cases playing the actual surviving 19th Century flutes.

As in other music genres there is a tendency, especially for new players, to want to play the kind of instrument the famous artists of the past played, and the kind that contemporary famous artists are using. There are very few contemporary artists playing anything but a blackwood flute. Actually I did see Kevin Crawford pull out a Bb flute in a concert a year ago that looked like it might have been Mopane? Something light reddish brown. So maybe there's hope for more variety eventually.

Personally, I do like the historical look. I play blackwood and cocuswood D flutes and a blackwood low Bb. I'm curious about other woods, but since we're primarily talking about visual aesthetics and not tonal differences, I haven't been motivated to experiment out of the historical wood zone. Not saying there is zero tonal difference, but I think the consensus is that it's minor if it's there at all, with the flute being primarily a non-vibrating container for the air column. If there were vast tonal differences maybe other woods would be more popular?

There is a weight advantage with some woods like boxwood and olivewood, but I play only keyed flutes these days, and I wonder if you would notice that difference with the weight of 6 or 8 keys added along with a metal lined headjoint, like my current flutes.

NylonFlute wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:44 am Olivewood is a pretty popular wood for high-end recorders.

Not true.

You see African blackwood/grenadilla in recorders a lot (and it’s almost universal in clarinets) but I don’t think I’ve heard of a boxwood or mopane recorder.

Then you know little about recorders: Far and away (about 75% - 80%) the world’s best baroque recorders are made of Boxwood, with the rest being primarily made of Grenadilla.

High end Renaissance recorders are most often made of Maple.

On checking the websites of the major recorder makers, Moeck, Kung, and Mollenhauer, they all offer recorders in olivewood (as well as maple, plum, pear, rosewood/palisander, grenadilla, and occasionally tulipwood and cherry), and very little in European boxwood — Castello boxwood for the most part. You and I may have different definitions of high-end, as von Huene, for example, does offer European boxwood, yes; you may also be thinking of individual craftsmen recorder makers.

Conical bore wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:40 am There is a weight advantage with some woods like boxwood and olivewood, but I play only keyed flutes these days, and I wonder if you would notice that difference with the weight of 6 or 8 keys added along with a metal lined headjoint, like my current flutes.

I also only play fully keyed flutes these days, and I 100% notice a significant difference in weight between my delrin 8 key and my cocus 8 key. Granted, that's a polymer to wood comparison, but I've noticed a difference between blackwood and antique cocus fully keyed flutes. Then again, maybe that's just me.

Eric

NylonFlute wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:12 pm On checking the websites of the major recorder makers, Moeck, Kung, and Mollenhauer, they all offer recorders in olivewood (as well as maple, plum, pear, rosewood/palisander, grenadilla, and occasionally tulipwood and cherry), and very little in European boxwood — Castello boxwood for the most part. You and I may have different definitions of high-end, as von Huene, for example, does offer European boxwood, yes; you may also be thinking of individual craftsmen recorder makers.

The high end alto recorders of today would be in the $2000 plus range, mostly $3000 plus. These are the recorders serious amateurs and professionals play, and they will be boxwood more than any other wood, by a very large margin, because that is what very good players prefer.

Olivewood recorders in that price range would be very rare, and likely only available as a special order.

The other woods you mentioned are, like olivewood, simply less expensive and/or more available woods that companies use to make cheaper instruments, and also as a way to save their boxwood stock for their best instruments.

As for you and I having different definitions of high end: You seem to be basing your ideas on where you feel “expensive” starts. Or perhaps you think of top makers based on internet searches and very limited experience. Regardless, for the purposes of the discussion at hand, it is most factual to say that the best recorders are by far mostly made from Boxwood, and rarely made from Olivewood. Arguing that mid-price point instruments count as high end is just plain inaccurate and doesn’t serve the discussion of Olivewwood’s merit as a tonewood for flutes.