Boehm taper or Tipple wedge- will they change tuning/spacing

[matthewd]

This is my first post on this forum, I am a whistle learner but I am hoping to graduate to flute, I have a theory question, just something I have been thinking about as I do some research.

If someone had had a cheap cylindrical flute and a Tipple wedge was added to it, would that require the layout of the holes in the flute to change, or would it simply be a matter of retuning the flute to compensate?

I believe this question would also apply to the Boehm taper which I understand achieves the same purpose (to improve the second octave) as the Tipple wedge by tapering the head joint from 19mm down to 17mm.

Thanks,
Matt.

[sbfluter]

I am no expert but I don't think it would alter the hole spacing. I only suspect this because Doug Tipple used to offer the wedge as an optional add-on.

[Tunborough]

It will alter the optimal finger size/spacing, more so in the upper octave, but perhaps not so much that you can't still play the lower octave in tune.

[jemtheflute]

Very short answer. Yes.

To elaborate:
The tone-holes have to be tailored to the head bore reduction. If you put a body well tuned for a whistle head into a correct length tapered flute head, the tuning will be off. Not necessarily drastically, but noticeably. Ditto (but worse) if you take a body tuned optimally for an all-cylinder flute (yes, I know such a thing cannot be made completely right) and put a tapered head on it - tuning goes out.

[Geoffrey Ellis]

If I make a simple, cylindrical bore flute and I place the finger holes and (just as importantly) undercut them in such a way to optimize the tuning for both octaves (as much as you can with a cylindrical bored instrument), and then introduce a wedge, the second octave goes sharp. That is the tricky part of having an optional wedge that you introduce after the flute is already tuned. You either try to optimize the tuning without a wedge or you adapt your hole placements and undercuts to accommodate the wedge.

Sometimes an optional wedge can be introduced after the fact for a minor tweak if the wedge is not too large. The Fajardo wedge (as seen in the original patent) is pretty big. I've made versions of it according to his specs that ended up being overkill. I didn't like the effect on the flute--it sort of made it feel constricted. I found that a much smaller, subtler wedge can have a very useful effect on the tuning balance without making the flute quite as tetchy.

[sbfluter]

Maybe then when Doug used to offer the wedge as an option he used different hole spacings on the body.

[Geoffrey Ellis]

Maybe then when Doug used to offer the wedge as an option he used different hole spacings on the body.

I would not be at all surprised. I suspect he knows as well as anyone how the wedges effect the tuning.

[an seanduine]

When I met Mr. Fajardo and discussed his wedge with him, he seemed to feel his design was optimal for an orchestral Boehm flute.
When I made a wedge to a set of drawings he provided me with, and made a straight cylindrical headjoint with a standard repair lip-plate
embouchure, I found rhe flute at least as in tune across the full range as with original bog standard student headjoint. I think Doug Tipple's wedges are smaller because he is aiming to optimize the tuning only over two octaves.

Bob

[Angel Shadowsong]

Hi,

You don't need to change the whole finger spacing at all.

You just need to adjust the wedge's dimension.

I have confirmed it with my flute samples.

When I ordered the Tipple E flute, I immediately noticed that the 2nd octave notes are extremely sharp.

CAVEAT: This is based on my embouchure and air control.I did not have any problem with the Tipple D and Tipple C at all.

Since I ordered an extra wedge. Im not afraid to experiment at all.


Here were the variance Tuning measurement of the Tipple E Flute second octave with Wedge

E = +5/-5 cents in the tuner
F# = +25 to +30
G# = +20 to +25
A = +15 to +25
B = +10 to +15
C# = +5 to +10
D# =-5 to +10


I immediately noticed the descending variation when the pitch gets higher.


Now here it is the second octave without the wedge


E = +5/-5 cents in the tuner
F# = +5/-10
G# = -5/-10
A = -10 to -15
B = -15 to 20
C# -15 to -25
D# =-20 to -30


I immediately noticed the descending variation when the pitch gets higher too.


It made me infer that the wedge is causing the excessive sharpness. Note that I have no idea with flute physics that time. My tuning correction idea only was the tapering idea by a conical body and not the parabolic head.


So I cut the wedge from the end little by little. It started being F# to +20/+25, then I cut again until I reach the note variation of +5/-5 which is acceptable for me.
All other notes have reduced as well ranging from 5-10 cents in the variation.



I reached to a point that after I cut a few millimeters the F# and G# is ok but A is not changing from +10 to +15 cents which terribly irritates me. So I taught I have reached the point where the wedge length is at the optimum.


I also made the pointy part of the wedge rounder to see if it has any effect. But it has little effect only.

So I started to adjust the slanted width/height , which has the hollow part of the wedge by sanding it to reduce the concavity. I was patient enough because the tuning change were very minimal at first.

After some sanding, I noticed this has the major effect on the A, B.

I kept on sanding until I saw that the A fluctuates from 0 to+10. Where I chose to stop because the B was fluctuating from -5 to 0, and D# became -10 to-15.

I was lucky enough that even the D# under OOO-OOO fingering is flat, OXX-XOO was spot on.


Other than the Tipple E, I also used the wedge tweak on my cylindrical Dixon Flute.

The result was D was spot on but E was sharp on the second octave. This is probably due to the bore size. So I have adjusted the wedge again.


The same thing happen with the Cylindrical Susato Dublin in F.

The wedge was reduced to almost 2/3 to have the optimal tuning correction on the second octave.

Hope this info helps you.

[jemtheflute]

Angel is correct that both in theory and in practice the wedge should be a different size/shape for every different pitch/size flute (as ideally should bore diameter!) so a wedge (or Böhm head) which is correctly proportioned for optimum scale tuning for a D tube will not be for an E or C or whatever tube. However, this (very useful) information and advice does not affect the points made previously and is not really relevant (is in fact incorrect in relation) to the OP problem.

If you have a (say) D tube which has its tone-hole sizing and placement and undercutting optimised for use without a wedge, if you drop a wedge into it, even one correctly shaped for a D instrument, the hole scaling will go out and no amount of tinkering with the wedge and tuning slide and stopper location will cure it. You have to get the overall complex correct.

BTW, if you put a wedge into a flute which has no tuning slide, you will also change (sharpen) the overall pitch of the instrument; or if you remove the wedge from a flute tuned for it, you will flatten it overall. i.e. the sounding length of a taper-headed flute is longer than that of an all-cylinder one for the same pitch. If your tube has a tuning-slide, you can adjust for any chosen single reference note, but the rest of the scaling will go off. Tinkering with the wedge will not cure those discrepancies. The hole scaling must be revised for best results.