Chiff and Fipple Forums

Help/advice with keyless Olwell options

I have some questions about the tuning slide option (half lined vs full) and the body center section (one piece vs two)

1. does the half lined head help prevent head joint cracks in the future(different expansion-contraction rates of the wood vs metal) does it have any effect on the sound or sound production?

2. Body of flute in two sections vs one..which is the most common? beside the ability to turn the lower section a bit to adjust for finger positions is there an other advantages or disadvantage? Does it create a step or ridge inside that might effect the sound?

What are the most popular choices or most common?

Thanks
Doug

Most people are interested in the Pratten model or the Nicholson. These have a one-piece middle. The former is a bit louder and more powerful, the Nicholson is certainly powerful enough. A bit easier to finger. There is also a Rudall model, which I've never seen or played, but I imagine is very good, like everything else Patrick O makes.

Patrick's flutes are exceptionally well made, so I think the prospect of cracking, if the flute is humidified in dry weather, is remote. This will be controversial, and my opinion, anyhow is that generally half-lined headjoints have a more woody sound, while fully lined tend to 'cut through' sound better. I prefer the latter, but that's me. I don't think one should let fear of cracks determine one's choice.

jim, nicholson flute have two piece middle part, not one .....
marin

Marin,
I formerly owned an Olwell Nicholson with a single middle joint and am sure Pat Olwell could probably make a Pratten with a two piece middle joint (keyless) if asked......the bore and hole size are the defining characteristics not the number of pieces. One could make a Rudall with a single joint or a Pratten with a separation despite associations of Rudall (split) Pratten (Single) due to historical models. Keyed flutes may be different depending on the placement of the G # key I would imagine
All the best,
Patrick

jim, nicholson flute have two piece middle part, not one .....
marin

My Nicholson did not have the two piece middle part. And here is a link to a photo of one for sale a while back that also has a one piece middle section. So I am not sure it is general right that they come with a split middle section.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=95558&start=15

Hello Doug, If it's an Olwell flute you want, then Patrick is the man who's advice you should seek. I have always found him a generous, informative and friendly communicator. Owen

maybe it could be made as one piece middle part.
what i know that paul o'shaughnessy olwell nicholson flute also have two piece middle part, so that was reason for my statement.
here is also link for olwell 'birthday flute' with two piece middle part some time ago.....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Patrick-Olwell- ... 7675.l2557
also thomas prowse nicholson improved and clementi nicholsons improved flutes were made as two piece middle part flutes....
here are link to terry mcgee's pictures:
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/collection.html
finally, there is link to long article about c. nicholson flute where was mentioned that flute consist of two middle parts ( bottom of page 32 ...), and it could be seen on some pictures .....
http://mds.marshall.edu/cgi/viewcontent ... ic_faculty
so, my conclusion is that one piece middle part was contemporary design, not historical .....
http://mds.marshall.edu/cgi/viewcontent ... ic_faculty

marin

A fully lined head always increases the risk of cracking, no matter how well made the flutes are. I wouldn't consider antique Rudalls and Prattens not well made due to their cracked headjoints...

Wood never stops moving, so there risk of cracking is always there. When a piece of wood is acclimatised well to the climate it is living in, the movements are reduced to a minimum, but still, a crack can appear.

A partially lined headjoint substantially reduces the risk of cracking.

Another thing to consider is that a keyless flute with a fully lined headjoint can be top-heavy, which makes playing uncomfortable for some people. For me, the balance point should be at the left hand (assuming you're playing right-handed) - a fully lined head on a keyless flute moves that point to somehere at the barrel, which can induce stress on your left wrist. On a keyed flute, that doesn't matter much, because the keys form a counterweight. That being said, a partially lined keyed flute often ist bottom-heavy, but that's not a big deal in my experience.

As to the sound, I'm not opening a can of worms here...everyone has to form his or her own opinion about that.

On the specifications sheet for his flutes, he lists "Center Section made in 2 Pieces" under additional options. Sounds to me like it's buyer's choice when you order the flute. There are no restrictions listed as to availability for any specific design.

Didn't mean to imply that a two piece nicholson isn't an option. I meant that when you order a Nicholson from
Patrick you get a prattenesque one piece body. It's standard, but not innevitable. So I think we're generally in agreement. As to the fully lined headjoints cracking, he's told me it virtually never happens with his flutes. I just have an extraordinarily high regard for his craftsmanship and savvy, and believe him. Obviously reasonable care must be taken. I do think, and a number of other flooters have expressed this over the years, that a flute with a fully lined headjoint, while it may not be louder than it would otherwise be, projects better than it otherwise would. This isn't to say that no flute with a partly lined headjoint projects better than another flute with a fully lined headjoint. Also the partly lined headjoint TENDs to have a somewhat more woody sound. I appreciate that people may have different opinions
.

One reason to consider a 2 piece middle section is that it allows rotation so that the bottom hand holes are out of line relative to the top hand. If one is using the 3 point method where the bottom hand thumb is more on the near side (not bottom) of the flute pushing outward, and you try to keep a relatively straight wrist, then you'll find that the fingers naturally want to fall more on the far side than the top of the flute. Conversely with bottom hand holes on the top, then your thumb will naturally want to be under the flute and/or you'll want to bend your wrist.

I observe that there are lot so of different ways to hold the flute, some of which look very unergonomic and yet work and are widely used, so it's up to you to figure out if this matters to you.

Hugh

A friend have a beautiful original Prowse Nicholson improved with a one piece body. My one in intwo pieces though

It should probably be noted that Pat's Nicholson model is not really derived from a Prowse or Clementi Nicholson but the term is used broadly in the sense that Nicholson means 'larger holed.'
At least that's my understanding...

I have owned an Olwell Pratten with a lined head, and I now have an Olwell Nicholson with an unlined head. When I was trying to decide what Olwell configuration to buy, I came on this forum and asked advice. I had similar replies to those given on this thread, but at the time, the advice to get the Nicholson slightly outweighed the Pratten. So what did I do? I did the opposite and got the Pratten with a lined head.

I had the flute for over a year and it was great, but I actually found the spacing to the 6th hole a little tricky. I'd end up not covering it properly quite often. If I'd stuck with it longer, maybe I would have adjusted. I had an email conversation with Shannon Heaton about her Pratten Olwell and asked if she found the spacing easy or hard, she said "I make it work". I'm assuming her hands are smaller than mine being a woman, so if you want a Pratten, I'm sure you could make it work, and many people have no problem at all.

I also found the lined head made it feel a bit unbalanced, but that may have just been me. I sold the flute to help pay for Uilleann pipes.

I now have Nicholson with an unlined head. It is well balanced and really easy to play. I couldn't be happier with it. We're all different and have different preferences. Just thought I'd share mine, and the experience I've had with Olwells.

Yes, the Olwell Pratten is an extraordinary flute, and one of the more easily played Prattens, but it is a Pratten, finally. It's not necessarily the best flute for folks with smallish hands. The Nicholson is somewhat easier to finger and is also a wonderful flute. I solved the whole problem by getting into Rudally flutes, finally.