silver flutist switching to wooden flute

[bepoq]

Hi Tia,

If you like the huffy puffy boys, it just so happens I do. And yes, I do tend to lean a bit in that direction - less so on that recording than usual in truth. It is generally a Northern style, often associated with fife or flute band influence and with Leitrim (McKenna and Duignan) and Belfast, (Wilkinson, Bradley), but it also turns up in the "rushy" Sligo style (Henry).

Off the top of my head and in no way comprehensively -
Among those active try, in no particular order:

Desi Wilkinson - (Solo, Cran, Cosa Gan Bhroga)
Harry Bradley - (Solo, Tap Room Trio, with Paul O'Shaughnessy)
Conal O'Grada
Gary Hastings
Marcas O Murchu
Fintan Vallely
Kevin Henry
Paul McGrattan (Beginish, also with O'Shaughnessy)

Among those no longer about:

Packie Duignan
John McKenna (of course)
Josie McDermott

[Aanvil]

Thanks Ben!

Just what I was looking for!

Marcas O Murchu and Harry Bradley are favorites!

Hey, I play with Mr. O'Hara and Mr. Eskin when they come to Long Beach at the end of each month at The Auld Dubliner.

It would be great to meet you.

Thanks again.

[MTGuru]

And Mr. bepoq is worth meeting, Aanvil, a genuine treat for the ears.

We're working on him ...

[karl]

Thanks to all for your replies and advice.

I was able to PM dow and got some advice from him. That helped a lot.

Matt, thanks for the advice about the embouchure. I am familiar with that as I have played silver flute for a few years, and so I'll be curious to see what changes I'll need to make in that.

For now, I'll play my silver flute until I can get the wooden one in a couple months. I'll start listening to irish tunes and learning them. Over the years I've played mostly church songs, and my favorites are always the ones with an irish sound to them. It'll be a lot of fun to hear them coming out of a wooden flute.



Laura

Sorry to be so late replying to this but I haven't logged in recently. Anyway, just wanted to as if you had considered a GLP by Terry McGee? I have Casey's folk fute, and a GLP from Terry. I find the finger spacing comparable. In addition Terry can do the flute with a square embouchre so it shouldn't such a change for you coming from a silver flute.

Karl.

[bepoq]

Hi Karl - did you notice the date on Lala's first (and last) post in this thread?


Neither did I.

[karl]

Hi Karl - did you notice the date on Lala's first (and last) post in this thread?


Neither did I.

Dohhh! No I didn't so that makes two of us.

[pancelticpiper]

I taught flute workshops for many years. These would often be attended by Boehm fluteplayers, so I've dealt with some of the issues that come up.

First, I don't think that anyone needs to switch from the Boehm flute in order to sound idiomatic when playing Irish music. The difference you hear between a Boehm fluteplayer and an Irish fluteplayer are mostly due to the style, not the instrument itself.

Others have brought up the differences in embouchure.

I don't think anyone has mentioned the difference in finger action.
On the Boehm flute the fingers usually remain more or less in contact with the open-standing keys, and when the key is closed the finger moves from this position to the closed position in a gentle way. Were you to keep the fingers high above the keys and slap them down on the keys to close them you would get a lot of key noise, and besides it would be inefficient.
However, this Boehm approach of keeping the fingers, when raised, very close to the holes (what is called a "guide position") prevents these players from producing the correct sound when doing an Irish "pat". For a pat to sound right it must be played very very quickly and the required speed cannot be generated from a close guide position. Boehm flutists must learn to raise the patting finger a couple inches above the flute and quickly flick the hole (the greater distance allowing the finger to accelerate enough). I've never had anyone at a workshop who did not raise their finger prior to doing a pat generate sufficient speed.

Another critical distinction is the entire approach to phrasing. "Classical" flute and recorder players tend to regard each note as a precious, carefully crafted thing with an elegant attack, core, and decay. It's often difficult for them to create the flow of Irish fluteplaying where the notes are part of a stream and don't have much individual value. Yes I know any trained fluteplayer knows how to play legato, but classical "legato" playing is somehow different from the Irish "flow". But, if you can get a "Classical" fluteplayer to play legato (which is sometimes difficult to do) they soon pick up on the sound of the "flow".
I say it's difficult because I've had people in workshops who simply could not not tongue every note no matter how I tried to demonstrate or explain legato playing. Even when playing in what they thought of as "legato" they still tongued every single note, though in a subtle way.
I've had people so entrenched in their tonguing that I've had to have them hold their tongue against the roof of their mouth when playing so as to deactivate it. Then, a light bulb would come on and they would understand what it was that I was trying to get them to do.

They also have difficulty getting "cuts" quick enough.

[kennychaffin]

^ Their riders became addicted to Irish flute, and between visits to the pub and leaning against a tree - they just don't have time to fly anymore!

and it is somewhat difficult to play flute while perched on a dragon's back and fighting the threads....

KAC

[jemtheflute]

Aaaah. I wondered if anyone else would get or respond to my pernicious interpolation! Of course, music (if with a slightly strangely misunderstanding approach to it) is an important theme in the Pern novels!

Back sort-of on topic: I've literally just received and unpacked the Gemeinhardt flute I've recently swapped for with G1, and had a toot on it. It certainly makes a lovely sound very easily, but I'm very rusty at playing Boehm flutes (hardly ever get my own old one out), so keeping my fingers closer together and doing the different F/F#, B/Bb/C things makes it hard to play anything fluently on it to test it out well in a hurry - a few hours and I'd probably click in with it OK. Anyway, I can easily make a huge, rich, round, earthy sound on it, but with the headjoint pushed right in I'm about 30cents flat! That is the effect of an ITM/C19th Simple System adjusted embouchure applied to a Boehm flute. One would need a flute with more sharpening capacity to be able to play it without altering one's embouchure.

[G1]

Since you mentioned the swap here, I feel it only fair to comment on the Seery Pratten style (Delrin) I got in the exchange.

I sat up with it until 2:30AM. I can't seem to put it down this morning either. Check the e-mails, pick up the flute; answer the phone, pick up the flute; grab a cup of coffee (rinse with water), pick up the flute.

The finish is slightly haggard looking (I assume from it's age - no chips or rough edges, mind you), which for me, makes it all the more attractive; and it responds like it was made for me. I know anytime a new instrument is acquired, there is the 'new toy' syndrome; but I was instantly able to call notes and push tones that I could not do on its predecessors. So I think it's just a bit more than that!

Also, the cravings for something better have finally melted away. I hope that part sticks.
Thanks Jem, for the swap and the tweaking you did on this lovely old flute.

[jemtheflute]

the cravings for something better have finally melted away. I hope that part sticks.

You (or any of us) should be so lucky!

Hope you didn't mind me mentioning it, G1, though I think it was pretty obvious to anyone who watched the relevant thread 10 days or so back! Anyway, I didn't see any reason not to now we've both received safely and are happy with the deal.

I'd hardly call the Seery an "old" flute, mind - it is certainly younger than the Gem! But then, I'm more used to flutes in the 100-200 year old range.

[G1]

Yes, I suppose 'old' is relative - especially amongst some of the antiques that are so cherished in these threads.

Perhaps I should have said it was like me - well traveled or seasoned (I'm 54 years young). But I'm also the guy that took over 30 years to agree that maybe there was an electric guitar better suited to my playing abilities than my standard money-maker.

I will admit that among all of the fine flute makers out there today, I am intrigued with the notion of eventually trying to get Mr. McGee to craft a Delrin Pratten Perfected for me... but financially, that is a ways off, and there are no half-measures to tempt me past this particular Seery.

Once I find an instrument that actually feels comfortable to me, I like to explore it until I'm pretty certain my chops might improve on something else. Until then, it's all on me. Push on and practice.

[kennychaffin]

Since you mentioned the swap here, I feel it only fair to comment on the Seery Pratten style (Delrin) I got in the exchange.

I sat up with it until 2:30AM. I can't seem to put it down this morning either. Check the e-mails, pick up the flute; answer the phone, pick up the flute; grab a cup of coffee (rinse with water), pick up the flute.
....

Hey, that's exactly how I've been with my Tipple flute as of yesterday. but the craving is far from gone in me, in fact I just placed an order for a used Dixon Delrin. Maybe that will stop it though.

This craving by the way (at least in one other musical forum I belong to) is called GAS - Gear Acquisition Syndrome


KAC

[johnkerr]

There is no doubt that Irish music can be played on a boehm flute, as people have pointed out, Joannie Madden manages it very well - although it might be pointed out that she has been perfecting the Irish style on it since she was given a very good boehm flute at a time when wooden models were not exactly thick on the ground the way they are now - I think she said she was ten or eleven. The last time I spoke to her about it she made some noises about wishing to switch over sometimes herself - although she was trying out a new Olwell at that second, so maybe it is not indicative of her general thought on the matter.

I had the opportunity to chat with Joanie a couple months ago after a CTL gig, and since the topic of her and wooden flutes has come up here a few times, I asked her about it. She had told me several years ago that she had gotten a wooden flute to play around with in her spare time, and when I asked her this time she said that oh, yeah, she has several wooden flutes but she doesn't really play them. (Of course as we all know she's still playing the Boehm flute exclusively on stage.) I didn't press her on it, but really I have no doubt that even though she <i>says</i> she can't play the wooden flute she can probably play rings around the likes of me on one, and I've been playing for over 15 years now. But like any good musician, when it all comes down to it you're going to choose your best ax when the gig or the session is on the line, and I'm sure that with her busy schedule she really doesn't have the time to bring her wooden flute playing up to the level of her silver flute playing.

Mike Rafferty on the other hand is one who played Irish music on the silver flute quite well for many years, but who says that it was getting a wooden flute from Patrick Olwell in the late 1980s that "saved [his] life." <a href="http://www.firescribble.net/flute/rafferty3.htm">(See the interview with Mike on Brad Hurley's flute site.)</a>

[bepoq]

Yes, that's the sense I have from her too John, and she knocked a tune out of my Olwell happily enough.