Pointing in the right direction

[Jay]

As for playing in tune, if you can play in front of a computer occasionally then you might download Flutini from Terry McGee's website.

Flutini

The link will take you to a page describing Flutini, and a link at the bottom will allow you to download. Basically, it records the tuning of each note in real time and plots the results as you play, allowing you to tweak your embouchure as you go. You're also playing tunes, up to speed, which is a better indication of how you actually play the notes.

Best of luck,
Jay

[Rhadge]

Thanks.

I'm familiar with Flutini when I have practiced tuning on whistle (until I was recommended to practice to drones instead).

[LewisC]

Hi Rhadge, I only a few months ahead of you. The steps that made the biggest difference for me were
(1) Find a good teacher if possible, I had been self-teaching for 9 months or so, and I have made more progress in the last 4 months that all of the ones before,
(2) Get a mirror and watch the embochure, squeeze the lips until it is down smaller than a grain of rice. I heard immediately the reedy focused sound when I hit the mark.
Lewis

[Cork]

...I tried playing in front of a tuner now, and it's 10-20 cents too sharp for low D. I take it I must change the direction of air, rather than how hard I blow, to adjust tuning? Because even if I blow as weak as I can, it's still pretty sharp...

Yes, it's a matter of adjusting the angle of the air stream. Notice that, if your embouchure does not move, that if your embouchure remains in a "fixed" position, a stronger air stream will cause a flute to go sharper in pitch, and a softer air stream will cause a flute to go flatter in pitch. On the other hand, if using an unvarying, constant air stream, blowing more downward flattens the pitch, and blowing more upward sharpens the pitch. So, for the moment, try thinking in terms of air stream speed verses air stream angle. Yes, between playing loudly and softly, getting a flute to stay in tune does have its challenges, but don't worry, as all of that gets "weeded out" during the first bazillion hours of practice!

And, while I recommend using a fixed pitch as a reference to kick off your first tone of the day, such as by a tuning fork, etc. (quite similar to playing against a drone, BTW), it's more important that you listen to the sound you are actually producing, and to then tune the flute by following your own ears. Literally, is this pitch really in tune with that pitch? This calls for you to develop your musical ear, but that's a wonderful thing!

Honestly, however, I'd suggest that you not begin at an extreme, such as low D could be. Instead, first go for an easier tone to play, say, an A in the bottom octave, or something like that.

And, once you've got that tone into good focus, then go for the tone immediately next to it, higher or lower, your choice, and see if you could then "spread" the goodness, and the focus, of the first tone into the next tone. You'll soon discover that no two tones "play" quite the same way, that each tone calls for a slightly different embouchure.

Eventually, however, you'll get to all of the tones, and then get them all in tune with each other. That's a major accomplishment!

[Rhadge]

And, while I recommend using a fixed pitch as a reference to kick off your first tone of the day, such as by a tuning fork, etc. (quite similar to playing against a drone, BTW), it's more important that you listen to the sound you are actually producing, and to then tune the flute by following your own ears. Literally, is this pitch really in tune with that pitch? This calls for you to develop your musical ear, but that's a wonderful thing!

You're referring here to having a sense of relative pitch? As opposed to perfect pitch.
Wouldn't it be best to train that with other instruments, or do you mean that it's good to get a sense of relative pitch proportionally to the embouchure?


Also wondering, if about 15 minutes a day concentrated exercise for the first months is a good idea. Since I have other instruments to play, I can play those when I feel musical, and just systematically get acquainted with the flute parallell to the other instruments.
The reason I'd limit to 15 minutes is that I get lightheaded after 5.

[Cork]

And, while I recommend using a fixed pitch as a reference to kick off your first tone of the day, such as by a tuning fork, etc. (quite similar to playing against a drone, BTW), it's more important that you listen to the sound you are actually producing, and to then tune the flute by following your own ears. Literally, is this pitch really in tune with that pitch? This calls for you to develop your musical ear, but that's a wonderful thing!

You're referring here to having a sense of relative pitch? As opposed to perfect pitch.
Wouldn't it be best to train that with other instruments, or do you mean that it's good to get a sense of relative pitch proportionally to the embouchure?


Also wondering, if about 15 minutes a day concentrated exercise for the first months is a good idea. Since I have other instruments to play, I can play those when I feel musical, and just systematically get acquainted with the flute parallell to the other instruments.
The reason I'd limit to 15 minutes is that I get lightheaded after 5.

lol

Actually, when it comes to the matters of pitch and tuning, I deliberately gloss over those otherwise lengthy topics. Now, there are those players who could be concerned about such things, those players who need to play in equal temperament in order to play "equally well" in tune in all twelve keys and their minors, etc., especially those who need to play along with instruments such as a guitar or a piano, and the like. However, perhaps a far greater majority of those, especially on this board, who take up the flute for the purpose of playing Irish Traditional Music could be more interested in just sounding good, and because the ever so popular keyless Irish flute doesn't wander too far from the keys of D and G, I simply advise that they begin with one reference pitch, and to then tune their flute from there. At worst, that could leave them playing well and sounding good in "just" intonation, wonderful! After all, Baroque music was built on "just" intonation, and that's some of the tonally sweetest music ever!

Yes, in the beginning, fifteen minutes a day is about the right amount of time to practice flute playing, and the most important reason for that is because it simply will take time to build up embouchure strength and flexibility, and a slow and gradual build up is better than rushing the process. Now, if you're really in a hurry, you might go for fifteen minutes of practice once every twelve hours, or twice a day, but the main idea is to start small, and to build up from there.

[Rhadge]

Thanks.
I'm not acquainted with tuning forks, but I'll get one. Though I don't understand their specifications. It says stuff like: 168/2 and 168/1.
Which one should I get out of these: http://www.thomann.de/se/search_dir.htm ... stimmgabel ?

Regarding muscles, I don't feel any strain at all. I manage to get an okay pitch by just forming my mouth as to whistle, then flattening it a bit and making a "frowning" shape of the mouth.
It doesn't feel strange or unusual. Maybe it depends on the embouchure used.

[crookedtune]

It doesn't really matter which tuning fork, as long as it's A=440Hz.

[Cork]

I use a tuning fork, but that's largely a matter of habit.

However, it's also entirely possible to use an electronic device, and there are a variety of them, ranging from hand held, fixed pitch tuners, to keyboards.

In fact, it's not a bad idea to simply play along with a continuous, fixed pitch as an accompaniment, electronic or whatever.

About starting small and building up from there, when practicing, believe it or not your embouchure really does gain strength as you practice, and the thing you want to avoid is in gaining too much strength too quickly because that could all too easily lead to becoming "muscle bound" at the expense of flexibility. For instance, professional dancers must be strong, yet they must also be physically flexible and have quick reflexes. Naturally, their training is quite different than that of a professional football player, as you no doubt could imagine. So, please keep in mind that your objective as a flute player is to become both strong and flexible. That's something of a balancing act, strength versus flexibility, one which simply takes regular (read: daily) practice, and time, to accomplish, and there simply are no shortcuts.

Learning to play a flute is somewhat like saving one penny a day, and it's not until quite some time has gone by before a fortune could be accumulated.

[Rhadge]

I can imagine tuning forks are limited when it comes to drone play, since from what I understand drones need to be the tonic to sound okay in a tune.
I will get one anyway, since they seem like a good thing to have. I'll build my own resonating box.

I'm glad my view on how I want to be practising the flute is what also is recommended.
One small step at a time.

Todays progress was to successfully switch between lower and second octave by changing the direction rather than blowing harder, thanks to the help here, and also Sir James Galway's instruction video on youtube.

[Cork]

Actually, it's really not necessary for a drone to be tuned to the tonic. For instance, I once spent a year as the student of a really good flute player, and while I'd be playing one melody, he'd often play an altogether different melody at the same time, but in the same key. Together, our melodies usually clashed, but, as the point, we were always in tune with each other!

However, playing against a drone can help in getting the tuning just right, recommended!

BTW, James Galway is a fine player, and has made some useful YouTube publications.

[Denny]

ah....we might be makin' this too hard

there is a number of free software toys here
one of which is a tuning fork

nod to Terry McGee

[groxburgh]

Actually, it's really not necessary for a drone to be tuned to the tonic.

AFAIK it's probably better to use a drone tuned to the 5th rather than the tonic.
Cheers
Graeme

[Cork]

Actually, it's really not necessary for a drone to be tuned to the tonic.

AFAIK it's probably better to use a drone tuned to the 5th rather than the tonic.
Cheers
Graeme

I'd first recommend the tonic, but the fifth is also good. For instance, on a D flute, I usually tune to a pitch of A at A=440, where A is the fifth of D.

I mentioned my experience with two different melodies, played in the same key and at the same time. Well, another interesting experience was in once being in a piper's glen, an outdoor area where pipe players got warmed and tuned up, just prior to their official performance onstage, and there were about two dozen players, all at once. Now, I don't think I need to say anything about the tuning "anomalies" of a set of pipes, and, moreover, the pipers were each warming up on completely different tunes from one another. Yet, rather than your worst nightmare, they somehow and perhaps miraculously managed to collectively become tuned to the same relative pitches, and I'd like you to know that it was one of the most exotic experiences I've ever known as a musician, simply stunning!

[Rhadge]

I'd first recommend the tonic, but the fifth is also good. For instance, on a D flute, I usually tune to a pitch of A at A=440, where A is the fifth of D.

Then, a pitchfork that emits an A (I guess that's the standard), would work as a drone in keys where it is either the tonic or the fifth? Meaning D or A. Not too bad since those are the most common keys in ITM, at least that's what I've read.

By the way, when you say tune, I take it you mean changing pitch with embouchure and how hard you blow?
Or do you extend the flute?