Playing beyond your skill level

[Gabriel]

I experienced the same not long ago. I came to the flute from the whistle, being inspired by Matt Molloy, Mr. Crawford etc. I loved their fast and powerful style of playing, so I imitated it without really knowing how to do it. I totally overblew the flute, causing it to sound loud, but soul-less. When started sets, I started them off far too fast since I thought, "hey, I'm on a session, I MUST play fast!", but not long ago, I found out that session "groove" not necessarily isn't defined by pure speed, but by the combination of steady rhythm and spot-on timing. Before I got that, my playing was fast, but inconsistent, not quite rhythmic and totally out of timing. So I went back and started off playing everything slower and against a metronome. Now that I did that for some months, my playing has much improved and I really start to like my own tone, which isn't edgy or "loud", but projecting and creamy/fat.

[Cathy Wilde]

There are also IMHO two (or indeed more) ways of
playing each of these two basic styles:
a. To dance to, or
b. to listen to.

AMEN! Though either way, the good stuff makes me want to dance (or at least in Martin Hayes's more introspective, "exploratory" modes, nod my head and groove along, although, as we know, he spent a bit of time in a ceili band himself .. and the guy can flat-out fly, too).

But it doesn't have to be "busy" or intricate to be good. Just .... well, good.

[Cork]

...So I went back and started off playing everything slower and against a metronome. Now that I did that for some months, my playing has much improved and I really start to like my own tone, which isn't edgy or "loud", but projecting and creamy/fat.

When you say that your tone has become projecting and creamy/fat, I am listening to you! However, in regard to the metronome, please remember the saying, that practice, practice, practice should NEVER make perfect, and my thanks to you for that!

;-)

[Aanvil]

I don't know about my tone but flootin' doesn't much running about and middle has become creamy and fat.

[Cork]

Hey, where's mahanpots, the original poster, here?

[mahanpots]

I named this topic "Playing beyond your skill level."
Last night, I played my monthly gig, guitar and flute at a small restaurant in a small town, no sound system. What a great venue, although the last time we played, a table of rowdies set the noise level up high enough to make it difficult to hear ourselves.
Last night was great. We even impressed a bassoon player for the Ringling Brothers circus!
My struggles began when I started playing my low f whistle, which I haven't been practicing lately. I felt I was spot-on with the flute, but the whistle had me second-guessing myself, and I felt the music suffered because of it, or maybe I suffered because of it. I started a set of reels way too fast, and muddled my through the rest of the set wishing I could slow down.
I don't see how people can master several instruments, like flute, fiddle and pipes. Do you practice all day long?
Anyways, I was just thinking that playing beyond your skill level might be a good exercise, that is pushing yourself beyond your capabilities. How else are you going to know what you can accomplish?

Michael

[jemtheflute]

I think always pushing at the edges of what one can achieve is certainly both necessary to progress and almost inevitable in the course of things! One should definitely have goes at playing things that stretch one technically, else one never develops. Preferably I think one should try to keep this experimentation/development work private and avoid deliberately "playing out" in public performance things that are beyond reasonable security. Trying to do things that are technically too far ahead of one's general current standard can also be counterproductive.

Of course, circumstances can make it necessary (or accidental) that one tries to do something in public that one is not entirely comfortable with/confident about. That can be a positive thing - an impulse to work harder and a personal fillip if it comes off well; but equally it can leave one embarrassed and exposed, at least to one's own disgust! That said, when one is moving up a step, there always comes a point where you have to take that difficult new piece out and air it in public, and however secure it may have been in private, the different context very often causes one to fall off from the level one had achieved at home! So I'm not saying one should only perform publicly well within one's comfort zone, but I do think one should not try to present things (pieces of music or technical tricks) one knows will almost certainly fall apart.

[Tony McGinley]

I named this topic "Playing beyond your skill level."
Last night, I played my monthly gig, guitar and flute at a small restaurant in a small town, no sound system. What a great venue, although the last time we played, a table of rowdies set the noise level up high enough to make it difficult to hear ourselves.
Last night was great. We even impressed a bassoon player for the Ringling Brothers circus!
My struggles began when I started playing my low f whistle, which I haven't been practicing lately. I felt I was spot-on with the flute, but the whistle had me second-guessing myself, and I felt the music suffered because of it, or maybe I suffered because of it. I started a set of reels way too fast, and muddled my through the rest of the set wishing I could slow down.
I don't see how people can master several instruments, like flute, fiddle and pipes. Do you practice all day long?
Anyways, I was just thinking that playing beyond your skill level might be a good exercise, that is pushing yourself beyond your capabilities. How else are you going to know what you can accomplish?

Michael

Who said anything about "mastering"?

I really do not consider the purpose of playing
as one of mastering or perfecting, so much as
one of simply voicing something of the human spirit.

If the spirit grabs you and you start to sing in the
shower - do you immediately go into "I must master
this technique" mode??

I am a lousy player of several instruments - but I get
great joy out of extending my "voice" in order to be
able to warble my joys and sorrows all the better.
Mostly I do this on my own or with just one or two fellow
travellers.

Whareas I would like to get better in my technique etc.
I have made a conscious decision to focus on playing for
playing sake. I never practice!!. Put that another way, I
never play to practice - I play to play and enjoy - and
should that lead to getting better - great.

I also try hard to avoid pi**ing contests.


.


.

[sbfluter]

The public/private thing produces quite a conundrum. In the privacy of my own home I play tunes I like but I learn nothing from other people. At the session I run the risk of offending people with my poor abilities. I have no idea where to find the happy middle.

[LorenzoFlute]

Tony, some month ago i would have agreed with you, but now the more i play the more i find that technique is VERY important, because if you now exactly how to play an instrument it will be a lot easier to express yourself in the way you like...
at the beginning most of the work will be learning tunes, improve the tone and rhythm and acquire a good fingering technique. When you have a solid or at least decent technique then you can dedicate to express yourself, and that's when you start playing real music...

[Tony McGinley]

Tony, some month ago i would have agreed with you, but now the more i play the more i find that technique is VERY important, because if you now exactly how to play an instrument it will be a lot easier to express yourself in the way you like...
at the beginning most of the work will be learning tunes, improve the tone and rhythm and acquire a good fingering technique. When you have a solid or at least decent technique then you can dedicate to express yourself, and that's when you start playing real music...

Sure how could I disagree with you - when I stated
to walk, I noticed that I fell down on my ass quite a bit.
Since that time I have somewhat perfected the walking
technique. Thing is though, I never really practiced "walking"

Maria Montessori believed that we all have innate ability,
and that play was the way to bring it forth and perfect it.

It is - sort of - along these lines that I argue. And it is not
to say that I do not appreciate excellence - far from it.

My point is that practice should be fun and enjoyable at
all times. And perfection need not be a stick to beat myself
with!





.

[mahanpots]

Tony,

Point taken. However, I recall my youngest son watching his bigger sister (one year older) walking about the house while he crawled. He determined that if she could do it, he could do it. Every time he fell and bumped his head, I think he was more determined to try again. He was always falling and getting these bumps on his forehead. He'd cry, and then ten minutes later, he'd be trying again.

So, when I was learning the flute and going to our local session, I saw folks playing their instruments with such skill or grace or whatever you call it. The music was wonderful, and I determined if they could do it, I could do it. And I've gotten quite a few bumps along the way. I remember Brendan Mulvihill was playing with at our session. Huge crowd of musicians. He started playing a tune I knew and I joined in. I think I was either out of tune or so excited that my instrument stood out over everyone else's. Well, Brendan just stopped in the middle of the tune, and everyone else stopped eventually, and then a few folks looked my way.

Don't really know where I'm going with this, but I enjoy playing music with other musicians more than practicing. But I practice in order to play with ohter musicians. Just as my son practiced walking so he could walk with his sister.

Michael

[Cork]

...I don't see how people can master several instruments, like flute, fiddle and pipes. Do you practice all day long?
Anyways, I was just thinking that playing beyond your skill level might be a good exercise, that is pushing yourself beyond your capabilities. How else are you going to know what you can accomplish?...

From what I've experienced, here on planet Earth, it is the rare individual who can master any one musical instrument. Yet, it seems that there really are those exceptional individuals who indeed convincingly can play more than one class of instrument, such as both flute and fiddle, for instance, but they really are exceptional.

Playing beyond your level? Well, I think Jem made a good point, in that pushing the envelope of one's present abilities seems to be requisite in order to improve. For instance, I have my warm-up routine, but after that I usually go into something more challenging, if only to push that envelope.

[cocusflute]

It's been snowing most of the day (I am not in Ireland as I write this). I have been playing most of the day - Larry Redican's reel, from Island Eddy's great new CD. Very challenging tune on the flute, especially the way Brian Duke plays it. Great tune for the fiddle - the tune is constantly moving back and forth from the G to the D string in the first part, and in the turn there are some quick C-B-Cs to be negotiated.
I've been playing it at about 40% of Brian's tempo. But I haven't been practicing it. I've been playing it. You don't really practice meditation: you meditate. I love to play. If I thought it was practice I wouldn't do it.
Does "practice" in "practice playing" mean something different than the "practice" in "practicing brain surgery?"
Practicing playing isn't something different from "playing." At least not for me. It's gotta be fun. You gotta love it. Or learn to love it.

Sure, it can be work. But in the words of the great immortal Olwell: "Not hard work... Easy work."

[mahanpots]

Tony McGinley wrote:

Who said anything about "mastering"?

Cork wrote:

From what I've experienced, here on planet Earth, it is the rare individual who can master any one musical instrument.

I guess I should have said "play several instruments well." I've met several musicians who play several instruments well.

I started playing a Shaw low f and low d several months back. My practice time was spent on low whistles for a while, and maybe my flute playing suffered a bit because of that. So, recently I started practicing flute more, and last night, I had a tougher time playing the low whistle. Maybe it's because it's a Shaw and takes a lot of breath.

I also played my high d whistle, but that was easier. I'm definitely not saying I have mastered playing any instruments. I think I play the flute and high whistle fairly well. Well enough to play at a session or in public and feel I've done well.

jemtheflute wrote:

I think always pushing at the edges of what one can achieve is certainly both necessary to progress and almost inevitable in the course of things! One should definitely have goes at playing things that stretch one technically, else one never develops. Preferably I think one should try to keep this experimentation/development work private and avoid deliberately "playing out" in public performance things that are beyond reasonable security. Trying to do things that are technically too far ahead of one's general current standard can also be counterproductive.

I agree.

My original post:

I've been playing my current flute, an Olwell keyless Pratten, for more than 12 years. Overall, I may have been playing for nearly 20 years. I'd have to call my ex-wife and ask her when I bought my first flute.
I learned the basics from a good flute player, and from there went on to play at sessions, and about six or seven years ago, started playing small gigs with a couple of other players. Also took a lesson with John Skelton.
Skelton teaches a style of playing hard, pushing the flute to just beyond its limit, and that kind of playing fit in well with the session-goers and fellow musicians I'd been playing with. There was a great fiddle player at the sessions, Fred Lail of Greensboro, NC, who would often suggest slowing down the tunes and playing with more lilt. And I liked the sound he created in doing so. But most of the time, it was hard-driving rhythmic playing, reinforced by popular cds by Irish groups such as The Chieftains, Altan, Solas, Lunasa, etc.
In learning the basics, and then stepping up to fast-paced session playing, I missed an important step. I'm not sure what to call that step, but I'm glad I stumbled into Chiff and Fipple and found an opportunity to step off my high horse long enough to listen to some good criticism of my playing.

Thanks again,

Michael

When I took my first lessons, I spent many hours practicing scales, arpeggios, cuts, taps, rolls, etc. I'm just relating my experiences. Maybe I should have named the topic Playing beyond my skill level.


Michael