Anyone feeling dizi?

[Doug_Tipple]

Here is another source for Dizi membrane material:
Clarion Music
I ordered the dizi membrane @ $3.00 including shipping. I am not sure what I will glue the membrane to the flute with. The traditional stick glue is available on ebay, but the supplier is in Singapore. Nano was right in that garlic juice has been used as a glue for the membrane. It seems to me that I could make a light glue with a drop of white glue and several drops of water mixed together. I am going to try that.

The "dimo" or dizi membrane arrived today. I also got a stick of the traditional Chinese glue like the man is using on the video showing how the dimo is attached over the hole. The dimo and glue stick plus shipping was $7. At first I didn't understand about how the dimo was made, as the strips looked too thin to be of much use. On closer inspection I saw that the little strips of very thin clear membrane were actually a flattened tube, which means to me the the dimo is an extruded shape (extruded rice paste, I believe). You need to cut open the tube and lay it flat for it to be wide enough to have enough area to glue over the dizi hole.

I am anxious to try my hand at applying the dimo to the flute. I hope that it sounds better than the wax papar that I tried. That didn't work at all.

[MTGuru]

A bit cross-topic ... But has anyone ever tried the dizi modification to a whistle?

I have an inexpensive bamboo dizi a friend bought for me in Singapore. It's pitched in (high) D, the scale length is exactly the same as a standard D whistle, and the hole for the dimo membrane is about the same size as the finger holes. So I imagine the same configuration would work with a D whistle, and approximate the dizi tone in that octave range.

I've never seen such a thing. And as far as I can tell, there is no "dizi whistle" in the traditional Chinese instrumentarium. The xiao is the Chinese endblown flute, but it's not a membrane instrument.

And BTW Doug, I have one of your lovely flutes, and there's no way I'm drilling an extra hole in it!

[TheSpoonMan]

A bit cross-topic ... But has anyone ever tried the dizi modification to a whistle?

I have an inexpensive bamboo dizi a friend bought for me in Singapore. It's pitched in (high) D, the scale length is exactly the same as a standard D whistle, and the hole for the dimo membrane is about the same size as the finger holes. So I imagine the same configuration would work with a D whistle, and approximate the dizi tone in that octave range.

I've never seen such a thing. And as far as I can tell, there is no "dizi whistle" in the traditional Chinese instrumentarium. The xiao is the Chinese endblown fipple flute, but it's not a membrane instrument.

And BTW Doug, I have one of your lovely flutes, and there's no way I'm drilling an extra hole in it!

I've a cheap dizi-whistle a friend of mine got me in New York. I use bits of plastic jewel (like the store) bags for the membrane... knocks it all outta tune, literally goes from major to (something vaguely like) minor. If I fiddle with it I can kinda get it into tune... I imagine dizis have all sorts of tuning issues by themselves

But when I actually got it working I absolutely loved the sound for the half an hour the plastic-and-scotch-tape actually worked

[Eldarion]

Dunno if this is standard any more, but I seem to recall that traditionally the membrane was made from the papery lining inside bamboo tubes, and was glued in place with fresh-crushed garlic juice, which is sticky.

I've only heard of people using a thin garlic peel (the dry outer covering) as a membrane, not garlic juice as glue.

Back when I was in Chinese classical orchestra the dizi players sometimes used scotch tape as a last resort in rehearsals, if they ran out of dimo. Dimo is dirt cheap and worth getting though, if you really want to play dizi. I have a small packet costing about US$1 and its enough in there to last me for a few years. Otherwise you can try the garlic peel thing or some other thin, moisture resistant rice paper.

[Matt_Paris]

Dunno if this is standard any more, but I seem to recall that traditionally the membrane was made from the papery lining inside bamboo tubes, and was glued in place with fresh-crushed garlic juice, which is sticky.

I've only heard of people using a thin garlic peel (the dry outer covering) as a membrane, not garlic juice as glue.

Back when I was in Chinese classical orchestra the dizi players sometimes used scotch tape as a last resort in rehearsals, if they ran out of dimo. Dimo is dirt cheap and worth getting though, if you really want to play dizi. I have a small packet costing about US$1 and its enough in there to last me for a few years. Otherwise you can try the garlic peel thing or some other thin, moisture resistant rice paper.

There are actually two different types of traditionnal glue :
- E jiao, made of animal (donkey) skin
- bai chi, made of garlic, I don't know how



I've heard that garlic or onion peel could be used as membrane. I tried, but they are definitely not thin enough...

There are also a lot of different dimo brands. Some are good, some are not, and they don't look all the same.

[toddyboy50]

There are also a lot of different dimo brands. Some are good, some are not, and they don't look all the same.

Anyone know of an internet source for a good brand? - Tod

[Spiegel]

I have a Dizi, but i cant find tabs of easy songs to practise, have you got any partiture?

[Aanvil]

This made me dig out a Dizi I have.

I found that well scrunched plasic wrap (to make the wrinkly surface) with a glues stick from Office Depot and little water worked the best out of all the different materials I tried.

Doug is right... wax and parchment paper does not work.

[toddyboy50]

Howdy.... trad Chinese tunes are typically written in numeric notation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeric_notation. Not too difficult to learn, sort of like a numeric version of ABC notation. I have access to quite a few of these tunes, but the titles are all written in Chinese - anybody willing to help translate the tune titles ? I can share the tunes to those interested.

Tod

[Spiegel]

Its a begin, thx!

[toddyboy50]

I'm not sure what's beginning, Spiegel, but check out this website...
click on any song title (in Chinese) and the numeric notation for the tune comes up - Tod
http://www.diyun.com/yuepu.htm

[Blackout_Entertainment]

A customer asked me if I would drill an extra hole between the embouchure hole and the first finger hole in my low D Irish flute in pvc in order for him to play it as a dizi. I said that I would give it a try.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizi
http://www.fournotes.com/asia/china/dizi.php

Here is a video of a dizi being played by a beautiful woman.
video

Here is another video showing how the membrane is apllied and how the dizi sounds afterwards.
video

Lastly, in this one minute mp3 Tod Barry of Temple City, CA plays my 3-piece, 7-hole low D dizi. Tod writes, "I've attached a sample of a traditional Chinese tune on your flute using the the "Dimo" membrane - it works quite nicely, the volume is increased and the tone can be adjusted by the membrane tightness - this one is recorded with a light amount of buzz that changes the timbre of the notes a bit (there are no added recording effects)"
Chinese melody playted on the dizi

O_O

I want one!

[Doug_Tipple]

I finally had a few minutes to experiment with a prototype dizi pvc flute.
I drilled a 5/16" hole inbetween the embouchure hole and the first finger hole. This seems to be an ideal size of hole for the width of dizi membrane that I have. Following the video instructions, I didn't have any problems in attaching the membrane to the surface of the flute. I was successful on my first try. To glue the membrane to the flute, I used the traditional glue made from donkey hide, although it seems to me that any white glue should work as well

Once the glued membrane was sufficiently dry, I pushed in with my finger to stretch the membrane slightly. I saw the instructor in the video do this. With regard to results, the first octave on my low D flute plays with a loud and consistent buzz with the notes. It also seems to make the flute sound louder. I notice that a couple of the notes in the middle of the second octave seem to fall off in terms of buzziness. I am guessing that there is an art to adjusting the membrane with just the correct amount of tension to vibrate throughout the whole range of the flute.

Since I do not know any traditional melodies for the dizi, I hesitate to offer a recording of an Irish tune with a dizi twist. I have already been warned by the moderators about my controversial posts. OH well!

[toddyboy50]

Hi Doug, glad to hear you've got the flute buzzing. As you play with it more, I think you'll find that embouchure changes can affect the way it plays just as much as adjusting the membrane. Generally, if you blow more across the hole you'll get more "buziness", and if you blow downward and tight (R&R style) you reduce the vibration of the membrane. It can sound totally unique, and louder, or virtually the same as your standard flute depending on technique. Have fun!

Tod

[Doug_Tipple]

Experimenting with my pvc dizi, I have found two things that may be of interest to anyone interested in making or playing a dizi. First, it is very easy to make a convertible Irish flute/dizi. Wrapping a one inch-wide strip of paper around the flute and securing the paper strip with a piece of tape, the paper strip can be slid over the dimo or dizi membrane, which on my flute covers a 5/16" hole. Completely covering the dimo will cause the flute to play with no buzz and sound like a regular Irish flute. If you slide the paper to reveal a small area of the dimo, you will get a slight buzz with the flute notes. Naturally, if you expose the whole dimo, you will get the maximum buzz.

It was mentioned in an earlier post that adding a dizi hole to a flute would increase the volume of the flute ,with the dizi hole and dimo acting like a resonator. While I agree that the sound of a dizi has a more penetrating sound because of the buzz that accompanies the notes, using a digital sound meter and comparing the sound levels of both the Irish flute and the dizi flute, I found that the sound levels were similar. It sure sounds to me that the dizi is producing a louder sound, but the sound meter doesn't indicate that that is so. I think that this is the reason that the oboe (with its overtones) is the wind instrument that is used to tune an orchestra.