who made this flute?

[notGeorge]

I have a flute I bought used about 20 years ago (I don't remember examtly). It has no makers name or mark. The person who sold it to me wasn't the original owner, but he said he thought it had been purchased from <i>Lark in the Morning</i>.

A friend is now interested in this flute. The local (southern Sweden) fluters say it's a good player, but they don't recognize the details and would like to know the maker's name.

I'm hoping somebody here might recognize the style and be able to tell me about the maker.

Additional and higher-resolution photos can be seen here.
Responses can be emailed from that web page, but I'd rather they be posted here, where others can see them.

[monkey587]

It looks exactly like the pakistani flute I played a month ago.

[nitterwhiskers]

I'd second that, I've seen quite a few of these flutes in music shops around London, normally priced between £100 - £150.

[Henke]

Seems plausible that this is a Pakistani flute. If it's a decent player, than good, you're lucky. That think doesn't happen often.
How much did you pay for it when you bought it?

Note: I have no affiliation what so ever to whomever is interested in buying the flute. I live in central Sweden, near Stockholm and I have no idea who that guy might be. Just so you know.

[notGeorge]

It looks exactly like the pakistani flute I played a month ago.

I'd second that, I've seen quite a few of these flutes in music shops around London, normally priced between £100 - £150.

Interesting. So assuming mine is Pakistani, they've been making them just like this for 25 years or more?

What's their reputation for playability?

I take it they also make keyed flutes, yes?
This one has no keys, but it has the holes for the low C# and C keys.

[monkey587]

It looks exactly like the pakistani flute I played a month ago.

I'd second that, I've seen quite a few of these flutes in music shops around London, normally priced between £100 - £150.

Interesting. So assuming mine is Pakistani, they've been making them just like this for 25 years or more?

What's their reputation for playability?

I take it they also make keyed flutes, yes?
This one has no keys, but it has the holes for the low C# and C keys.

Their reputation is quite poor, hence the sticky at the top of this forum. The one I played that looks identical to yours has a nice tone on the top couple of notes but F#, E, and D in any octave are weak, fuzzy, and out of tune.

[notGeorge]

Seems plausible that this is a Pakistani flute. If it's a decent player, than good, you're lucky. That think doesn't happen often.
How much did you pay for it when you bought it?

I honestly don't remember what I paid for it. More than $100 and less than $300, I'm quite sure. (I was living in the US at the time.) Adjusted for inflation (some uncertainty in the date, too), I guess it would be somewhere in the range $200-450 in current dollars, or more than £100 and less than £250 in today's pounds.

Pretty broad range, I know, but it should be irrelevant to its current value. However, it does seem to include the quoted current price range for Pakistani flutes in London.

Note: I have no affiliation what so ever to whomever is interested in buying the flute. I live in central Sweden, near Stockholm and I have no idea who that guy might be. Just so you know.

I knew without you telling me.

[notGeorge]

Their reputation is quite poor, .... The one I played that looks identical to yours has a nice tone on the top couple of notes but F#, E, and D in any octave are weak, fuzzy, and out of tune.

No, mine is solid and in tune all the way down, even the C# and C holes if I cover them over. And even with me playing it, though I'm not very good. (My fingers have never been comfortable with the stretch to the low D, so I've never done much with the flute. I'm much better with whistles.)

Sounds great in the hands of my advisers, who really know how to play.

[chas]

Doesn't someone (Rod Cameron) tweak these? It's possible that it's a tweaked inexpensive flute, also that it's the proverbial diamond in the rough. I've lucked out a couple of times buying no-name antiques on ebay.

[Chiffed]

I've got one that looks nearly identical, bought cheap on Ebay to satisfy my curiosity. I'm glad yours plays well; mine is only barely playable after a significant encounter with powertools.

[notGeorge]

Well, the consensus seems to be that this looks like a Pakistani flute, but from the descriptions of the Pakistanis' playability (or lack thereof), it seems to be of a higher quality than one would expect from a Pakistani flute. All the comments on Pakistani flutes seem to be based on current stock, rather than what might have been for sale 20 or more years ago.

So I could speculate various things:
... It's Pakistani, but accidentally better than usual. (Personally, I don't favor this. It looks to me like it was built with care, not by accident.)
... It's Pakistani, but when it was built the quality standards were higher.
... Though it uses the same design as today's standard Pakistani flutes, it was built by someone other than the maker(s) of those currently found in London music shops, and to a higher quality standard. (Pakistani? American? unknown!)

The only definite conclusion I can draw is what I came here with: I have a nice flute, in tune and a good player after more than 20 years of sporadic use, but with no identifiable maker.

So its value should be based on its observable quality, not on any maker's name. (Shouldn't that be the case even where the maker is known?)

Anyway, thanks to all for the help.

[Chiffed]

I'm with you on the options. I'd guess that, because good musicians and music are found in Pakistan, and your flute is both well-made and is of near-identical design (down to the case) to evil export flute-like-thingies from Pakistan, you have an honest Pakistani flute. Good to hear further confirmation that they exist.

[Henke]

There's another option as well, as stated earlier in this thread.

... It is a normal Pakistani flute that has been tweaked and improved by a craftsman (like Rod Cameron, although he might not have been doing that for 20+ years)

[Jack Bradshaw]

Well, the consensus seems to be that this looks like a Pakistani flute, but from the descriptions of the Pakistanis' playability (or lack thereof), it seems to be of a higher quality than one would expect from a Pakistani flute. All the comments on Pakistani flutes seem to be based on current stock, rather than what might have been for sale 20 or more years ago.

So I could speculate various things:
... It's Pakistani, but accidentally better than usual. (Personally, I don't favor this. It looks to me like it was built with care, not by accident.)
... It's Pakistani, but when it was built the quality standards were higher.
... Though it uses the same design as today's standard Pakistani flutes, it was built by someone other than the maker(s) of those currently found in London music shops, and to a higher quality standard. (Pakistani? American? unknown!)

The only definite conclusion I can draw is what I came here with: I have a nice flute, in tune and a good player after more than 20 years of sporadic use, but with no identifiable maker.

So its value should be based on its observable quality, not on any maker's name. (Shouldn't that be the case even where the maker is known?)

Anyway, thanks to all for the help.

Just a note: as a result of this disscussion, I dug out an "old-old" Pakistani that has been sitting in my junkbox w/ cracked head and barrel for years........sure enough, after repair, it's actually in tune....440 w/ the head all the way in though........now I'll have to fuss w/ it !

Edit: this is in stark contrast to my "merely old" Pakistani which is an absolute disaster !

[breandan]

see http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IRISH-FLUTE-FULLY ... dZViewItem
which looks uncannily like yours.

I bought a tweaked version of one of these from calmont music for about £40 and it was acceptable as a starter flute at that price. It was just curiousity on my part and I sold it on at cost to a friend who wanted something cheap for this daughter to start on.

Mind you - at that price expectations should be suitably low