cylindrical flute w/ Boehm headjoint and simple system keys

headwizer · Post by **headwizer** » Mon May 16, 2005 12:20 pm

After much thought on this subject, I believe that I will only be able to get the sound I really want on a cylindrical flute. I don't think I want the Boehm key system though. Every modern maker of wood flutes that I know of makes them with conical bores.

Is making a cylindrical wood flute with simple system keys more difficult? There are several flute makers who make wood Boehm headjoints. A cylindrical bore body should be easier to drill than a conical one. Are they any old models of cylindrical wood flutes with simple system keys that are particularly prized for their sound?

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Mon May 16, 2005 12:49 pm

You're gonna need B I G hands to play that baby.

I have a friend who made one of these once as an experiment (keyless cylindrical flute, parabolic Boehm head, six holes). I could play it, barely, and I've got large hands, long fingers (I'm 6'4" and Mick O'Brien described my fingers as being longer than Seamus Ennis's). The toneholes were large and spread quite far apart...there aren't many people who could comfortably finger a flute like that.

headwizer · Post by **headwizer** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:08 pm

brad, would it be possible to make such a flute with smaller tone holes that were ergonomically positioned? I am not necessarily interested in a flute that plays as loudly as a Boehm, just one that has similar sound quality.

The Tipple flutes are comfortable 6-hole cylindrical (pvc piping) flutes and Tipple sells a wedge that simulates the effect of a parabolic bore in the Boehm headjoint. Tipple flutes are in tune throughout 2 octaves and possibly even into the 3rd octave.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:21 pm

Check with Terry McGee; I am almost positive he offers (or at least, used to offer) a simple-system flute with a Boehm-profile bore (cylindrical bore with "parabolic" head taper).

--James

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:23 pm

headwizer wrote:brad, would it be possible to make such a flute with smaller tone holes that were ergonomically positioned?

I'll leave that question to any flute makers who may see this thread!

phcook · Post by **phcook** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:25 pm

Try to find some old French flutes (1850-1880) on ebay; they used to build cylindrical flutes with pin-mounted keys, and some people on this board could give you good advice about it.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:40 pm

From Terry McGee's site:

Metzler cylindrical (10.9mm), after a flute by Metzler with the new Boehm system bore but the old 8-key fingering pattern. A copy of this transitional instrument might suit the player who is accustomed to the open feel of the modern flute but wants a wooden flute for the more appropriate sound, fingering patterns and appearance.

Sounds like this may be what you're looking for to me.

See http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/originals.html .

--James

headwizer · Post by **headwizer** » Mon May 16, 2005 3:45 pm

Yes!!!! Thanks peeplj!!!

I went through McGee's offerings, but missed this one. Is anyone familiar with the original Metzler cylindrical flute?

Terry's site says that the Metzler flutes are not generally the best examples of the period. I've emailed him about this. Maybe there's a good cylindrical Rudall/Rose that he could model.

mcdafydd · Post by **mcdafydd** » Mon May 16, 2005 4:56 pm

How about looking into one of the seldom-mentioned radcliff system flutes? I think you'll need some kind of keying mechanisms on a cylindrical bore flute, if you're going for a tone more reminiscent of a Boehm-style design. As tone hole size greatly affects tone, they'll need to be large, and I've yet to meet a person who could cover 13mm holes with any of their long digits. Boehm knew that holes as large as possible were needed to get the best tone (in his opinion) possible. Well, I guess Nicholson felt the same way!

Check out:
http://www.oldflutes.com/articles/radcliff.htm

I didn't know how to easily find out the number of years these were produced, but it seems there would be quite a few floating around. Let us know what you come up with and how you feel about the new flute when it arrives!

cheers

mcdafydd · Post by **mcdafydd** » Mon May 16, 2005 5:00 pm

seems like this was posted in December or, at least updated then. Who knows?? Could still be available:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/greenery/h ... lute4sale/

RudallRose · Post by **RudallRose** » Mon May 16, 2005 5:00 pm

I own Rudall/Carte #7403, thus far the highest-numbered Rudall flute in the 8-key simple system arrangement yet located.

And it is a cylindrical bore with parabolic head (built in French slide....a term I know Terry hates....but I can't remember what we agreed to finally call it).

It is in Eb and fine flute at that.

The final flutes in the Rudall 8key years were indeed cylindrical bores with parabolic heads.

And, no, they don't require huge hands to reach.
And this flute is a pillar-mounted flute, solid body (rather than the typical Rudall two-piece body)

mcdafydd · Post by **mcdafydd** » Mon May 16, 2005 5:04 pm

Cool! That's great to know, thanks David. Are any makers regularly reproducing that bore?

RudallRose · Post by **RudallRose** » Mon May 16, 2005 5:06 pm

they don't really "play" like the cone flutes. The resistance is much different. I don't get the same "feel" from the bottom notes, although the upper registers into 3rd and 4th octave are very much on.

for what it's worth
if you'd like a photo or perhaps measurements, simply ask.
dm

headwizer · Post by **headwizer** » Mon May 16, 2005 5:21 pm

David, can you describe the sound of that RR cylindrical flute compared to your other RRs? What do you mean by "they don't really 'play' like the cone flutes."

How great that they can play into the 4th octave!!! Is the first octave not that good?

Can you send me photos? Will pm you with my email address (don't want to post it here due to SPAM).

mcdafydd, thanks for the suggestion of the Radcliff. I was looking for an simple system solution because I play mostly for myself and don't like the clacking noise of the rod-key mechanism. Still, if it turns out that I will not be able to order a simple system cylindrical flute, Radcliff may be an alternative.

glinjack · Post by **glinjack** » Mon May 16, 2005 5:59 pm

hi
i have an 8 keyed flute with cylindrical bore, made of beautiful cocuswood with 8 salt-spoon pewter keys, it has a boehm type head joint ( no short barrell) the headjoint has a short metal sleeve ( much like the rudall carte boehm system flutes) and there's a short metal sleeve inside the body which fits snugly inside the head, the body is one piece, this and the spaceing of the tone holes reminds me of the pratten system 8 keyed flutes, the rings (mounts) are all missing, i removed them as they were broken, they were made of mop (MOTHER OF PEARL) i have'nt seen those type of flute mounts before, i had planned on getting the mounts replaced with pewter to match the keys, but hav'nt done so yet, flute is 3 sections head- one piece body and footjoint. the flute is a great playing flute but needs mounts.