Flute Tuning problems

[jim stone]

If Musicians are uncommonly kind and forbearing people, the human species never would have evolved.

I renew my suggestion to take up the matter with Mr. Doyle, who can probably give more than adequate
advice and help.

[Julia Delaney]

Jim, I totally don't understand your first sentence. There seems to be a grammatical mis-match.

Mr. Doyle's advice would most likely be to practice more. It is doubtful that Doyle would ever have let a flute leave his shop if it were not in perfect tune. He is one of those makers who prides himself on his tuning and often criticizes other well-known maker's flutes because of their tuning idiosyncrasies. He is my neighbor and friend and I have played dozens of his flutes. As with Wilkes and Olwell flutes, I have never encountered a tuning problem with a Doyle flute. That said, any flute can be played out of tune if the player isn't listening.

Terry, I dont' understand the techno geek talk. But I do agree that one plays a flute in tune by adjusting one's embouchure and air-stream as necessary. Doyle's flutes are very much his own design, worked out over the years. He really hasn't copied anybody so there is not a case of "sanitizing" the tuning, as there is in most modern makers.

As regards the sh*t detector: the OP came on board complaining that he no longer enjoyed playing music because his fellow musicians were mean to him. But is it all the fault of other people? Maybe they weren't being mean to him. Maybe they were kindly suggesting that he change his style, or not play as loud in the second octave. True, some musicians are ego-driven, unkind, and don't care whether or not they hurt another musician. There is often a bollix in the mix of people who play together. But a group of people -- a band -- picking on one person without cause? How can one explain this: ....people telling me to "learn the tunes" that I know to near perfection. I say, let us hear a tune played to near perfection. I know what my old flute teacher would have said: it's either played perfectly or it's not.

[Jayhawk]

There is a significant amount of weirdness in this thread...

• The OP hasn't tested the flute for leaks as suggested.
  
  The OP's flute has had a lot of cracks at the joint despite taking really good care of it (a crack is not a surprise, but I am surprised a Doyle flute would have lots of cracks).
  
  The OP can play a Grinter in tune but not his Doyle and hasn't commented on whether or not it's a change that the Doyle is now suddenly out of tune.
  
  I would have to presume the out of tune problem is new otherwise, why would the band invite someone who can't play their instrument in tune into a band (I agree with Julia that musicians are kind, but they also like to play with others who can play)?
  
  The OP is being told he needs to learn the tunes for his band (that has no relation to the tuning of his flute). Tuning is one issue, but not knowing the tunes is vastly different.

Eric

[megapop]

The OP is being told he needs to learn the tunes for his band (that has no relation to the tuning of his flute). Tuning is one issue, but not knowing the tunes is vastly different.

This might be the problem indeed - the flute is very well in tune, it just plays entirely wrong tunes!
As opposed to the Grinter, which of course does know the tunes being played by its band members...

[FascinatedWanderer]

There is a significant amount of weirdness in this thread...



The OP is being told he needs to learn the tunes for his band (that has no relation to the tuning of his flute). Tuning is one issue, but not knowing the tunes is vastly different.[/list]

Eric

This is what struck me also. On a different note, I have greatly enjoyed the use of the contraction "amn't" which I have long felt should be part of the grammatical mainstream.

Also, I think there are worse problems in the world than being forced to play a keyed Grinter...

[Jayhawk]

I clearly joined the wrong band...no one is tossing keyed Grinters at me to play. Who has a spare keyed Grinter laying around?

Eric

[Loren]

As others have stated, it's tough to get to the bottom of this without the flute and/or player available in person, or at the very least to have a recording of the player using both the Doyle and Grinter. That said, this from the OP is what strikes me:

The problem has always been there and I know it is a necessary evil in the case of flutes to an extent,

It would seem you are saying that A) Playing in-tune has always been an issue for you and B) To a certain extent flutes can not be played exactly in-tune, is that correct or am I misunderstanding what you meant? If you have always had difficulty playing in-tune, is this just on the Doyle or do others feel you are also out of tune when you play the Grinter? I am curious, can you sing on key? I am not asking if you are a singer per se, just wondering if you can sing, well in-tune, the notes of a tune you know well?

Loren

[Ronnie]

Hi to all,
I like posts that are here to help eachother but this one boggles me. I am not the best fluteplayer but in fact who is? Surely we don't compare ourselves with the "big" boys who are so talented but represent a small percentage of the flute scene. But having said this, we can blow a tune. Its in fact a never ending story. Maybe your band members are very strict in perfectionism, I don't know. What the flutes concern, I have a Martin Doyle flute with keyes made by Maurice Reviol and an eight keyed grinter (one year old). I like these flutes very much and I wouldn't dream of moving corks on either one of the flutes because I know that these makers deliver them in good nick with the cork in place. I also am surprised that your Doyle has so many cracks, until now mine hasn't any. Do you keep your flute(s) near central heating? Flutes are seldom out of tune with theirselves, they can sound however out of tune by overblowing or bad tuning in a session. They are in fact never exactly in tune with every note of for instance violin or box. I tend to tune a bit under 440 because I have difficulties tuning during a session. If you have musicians around you who are friends they will help you become better without putting you down. Nobody is perfect. The only thing we all do is trying to get better and give tips to eachother.

[daiv]

What the flutes concern, I have a Martin Doyle flute with keyes made by Maurice Reviol and an eight keyed grinter (one year old). I like these flutes very much and I wouldn't dream of moving corks on either one of the flutes because I know that these makers deliver them in good nick with the cork in place.

although your point is a good one, corks do move from time to time. i have a flute in which the cork moved 5mm+, even though i never touched the cork!

Flutes are seldom out of tune with theirselves, they can sound however out of tune by overblowing or bad tuning in a session. They are in fact never exactly in tune with every note of for instance violin or box.

many flutes are out of tune with themselves, some more than others. with any quality flute, this is a matter of design, whether or not any player can adjust or compensate. please check out this link http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/RR742.htm, which details a flute that is extremely out of tune with itself but played impeccably in tune by it's owner. if you have spotify, then this link will give you access to one of chris norman's albums: http://open.spotify.com/track/0ab48J2e1aMBIzj4LIalCK

[MarkP]

a flute that is extremely out of tune with itself but played impeccably in tune by it's owner

and ergo, in tune with itself

[daiv]

a flute that is extremely out of tune with itself but played impeccably in tune by it's owner

and ergo, in tune with itself

in this case i would say that chris norman plays it in tune, but your point is well taken, . do check out the tuning chart that terry created for the flute and listen to chris playing it on the recording. it seems hard to believe that it could be done!