Chiff and Fipple Forums

I'm thinking of switching from whistle to a box. But to which one?


Concertina & "irish" box with two rows and eight bass chords are cool, but they're not chromatic, am I right? So every time I have a tune that has some occasional "weird" # or b, I can't play that tune. Sorry, I've got enough of that on a tinwhistle (even though you have half-holing there).

Piano accordion is cool also, but that's not for irish music, but for scottish.


Are there any other options?

breqwas wrote: Concertina & "irish" box with two rows and eight bass chords are cool, but they're not chromatic, am I right?

Nope, they're fully chromatic. There are some factors that make certain keys a little challenging on some instruments -- e.g., playing in A on the B/C box sometimes makes me think my left arm isn't long enough -- but you can play in any key on the B/C or C#/D accordion, or the 30-button concertina.

Piano accordion is cool also, but that's not for irish music, but for scottish.

Lots of Irish musicians play piano accordion. It's a fine instrument. If you like it, go for it.

If you are any way undecided dont go for PA it gets alot of slack and 99% of it is deserved. It isnt a great instrument for Irish traditional music anyway.. Go concertina or button box

Why do you say the PA isn't a great instrument for Irish music? It's not a popular instrument, fair enough, but what in your opinion makes it unsuitable?

Ro3b wrote:playing in A on the B/C box sometimes makes me think my left arm isn't long enough

Yes, the air button is your friend ... and those blessed push notes ...

There's a fellow here who plays ITM on a Russian bayan, and he's pretty convincing. He's Azerbaijani, and he learned Irish music in Istanbul.

For feis playing, my impression (which could be wrong) is that piano accordion is not only perfectly appropriate, but perhaps even more common than button box. Stradella bass allows the full accompaniment that dancers like.

Sure ... if you're starting cold with no previous piano or PA skills, and the $$$ to spend, why not choose an Irish style box. But here at least you can often find a nice used PA very cheap and make it work. Great PA players like Jimmy Keane (Bohola) or Karen Tweed would be very welcome at any session.

Bayans are good by the thing that there're lots of them around, you can get a used "student" one even for free. Fully chromatic with no limitations, BTW, and no "vibrato" like in PA. I'm thinking about it. Who's that fellow?

And there's one thing that makes me think about PA, its name is "Phil Cunnigam"

breqwas wrote:Concertina & "irish" box with two rows and eight bass chords are cool, but they're not chromatic, am I right? So every time I have a tune that has some occasional "weird" # or b, I can't play that tune.

B/C and C#/D boxes really are chromatic in the sense that you will never be stuck for a weird note.

Which is why I - coming from whistle like you - went for one rather than a D/G. (You can get D/G boxes with accidentals to cover most weird notes, but they are never as handily placed as they are on a C#/D or B/C.)

However B/C and C#/D aren't truly chromatic in the way that, say, a continental chromatic button box is, meaning that you can play in _any_ key relatively easily. But they are just fine for nearly all your Irish music needs - much more so than a tin whistle! Also, the Irish-style boxes have one significant advantage over piano accordions and continental chromatics: they are much smaller and lighter­.

The choice between concertina and accordion is down to personal preference. Tinas are even lighter and fantastically portable. But they are generally more expensive (much more expensive at the top end of the range) and much harder to find than button boxes.

I love to listen to a good concertina player - actually more than to a good box player, all things being equal - but ergonomically they aren't my thing. I mean, I could never get used to dandling one of those pissy little things on my knee, with tiny buttons crowded together that stick into your finger pads like pins.

breqwas wrote:Who's that fellow?

Rowshan Dowlatabadi: http://www.rowshanmusic.com

Dave Mallinson in England plays great Irish stuff on a D/G box. Those stupid accidentals at the bottom of the keyboard on Ericas and the like are pretty useless for the purpose. I was thinking of getting mine retuned to more useful notes that are missing from the bottom end (which stops me playing Tommy Bhetty's Waltz on it for example). But I think if I was starting from scratch I'd go for a semitone-apart box. The experts will tell you which is the best tuning! Piano accordions are not much liked by session players because of their tendency to overwhelm and the lushness of all those chords, which can sound out of place if overdone. But there are some great PA players of Irish. It's the poor ones or the downright insensitive ones who give the poor old PA such a bad name.

[I could never get used to dandling one of those pissy little things on my knee, with tiny buttons crowded together that stick into your finger pads like pins.]

you got to make sure if you get a concertina that you get a 30 keyed anglo concertina in the key of C/G. you will not be able to play in every key unless it has 30 keys. 20 keys is no good for modern playing in irish music. you need C#, and as you said you want fully chromatic. if you can find a nice 26 button jeffries pounce on it, as it would fit your needs and then some.

as far as accordion vs. concertina no one can tell you but yourself. i have seen people play the B/C in funky keys, and i'm learning how to play the concertina in all 12 keys.

i would say to stay away from the piano accordion unless you are really in love with the idea of it. B/C is probably the way to go. if you have a stylistic reason to chose another key, or another type of accordion, go for it. but i would recommend not choosing something for a wishy-washy reason like it looks easier.

same goes for english concertina. stick with anglo unless you're really into the idea of the english.

anglo C/G 30 button and B/C diatonic are the most common choices in irish music, and therefore you will find the most teachers, most resources, and most importantly, most fellow players to learn from and bond with.

before anyone gets defensive, i would also recommend to stay away from the silver flute for irish music unless you were really in love with the idea of it. i play the silver flute in irish music, and i am fully committed to it, and the only reason i learned the silver flute was to play it in irish music. so, i'm not trying to detract from anyone who has made those choices, least of all myself, but again i think that you should make these choices to play the "odd instrument out" because you are passionate, not because you just dont know the difference.