Mandolin chop chords?

[brewerpaul]

Tried to post this earlier, but the board froze up (a common occurrence)...
I usually play 2 or 3 finger chords on mandolin, but I'd like to be able to play 4 fingered chords so I can move them around the neck. However, this seems to be a physical impossibility. My 4th finger invariably muffles the third strings. I've tried placing my fingers on the lowest notes first, but nothing helps. Any suggestions? Hand positions? Thanks.

[Rob Sharer]

Your fingers need to be coming down onto the board at about a 90 degree angle. No slouchy guitar fingers! Try pushing your palm past the neck so you begin to see the place where your fingers join, and then some. You need to be comfortable, of course. Curl those fingers into a true "C" shape.

You also need to evaluate your posture and fretting mechanics. Are you gripping, or are you using your hold on the mandolin to gain the best mechanical advantage for holding the strings down?


Rob

[s1m0n]

Chop chords are often expected to have a muffled quality. Even Bill Monroe's sound like that much of the time.

[Rob Sharer]

True enough, but you want to be in control of that. Sometimes you want to let them ring, sometimes you only want chucka-chucka with no harmonic content whatsoever, and sometimes it's somewhere in between. You've got to have your LH technique together enough to be able to access all of that at will, not just take what you get.

Additionally, some of the muting comes from the right hand. Don't forget to stretch your corpus callosum!


Rob

[Tim2723]

There is a subtle difference between chop chords used in Bluegrass (where the mandolin becomes the snare drum of the rhythm section) and movable chord forms for the more usual sort of accompaniment. Check out the FFcP (Four-Finger, closed Position) techniques described at jazzmando.com.

[buddhu]

I used to find chop/closed chords awkward.

Like Tim said, Ted E's FFcP system is good for getting the fingers used to coping without open strings, and for developing pinky strength and dexterity. It's more about scales than chords, but it provides a great workout that pays off in all areas.

And like S1m0n said, muffled is kind of ok as chop chords are more about percussion. In bluegrass they function almost as ersatz snare drum (just noticed Tim already covered that!). There only needs to be a hint of tonality - if that. Some players bluff it to the extent of just hitting muted strings.

If you want closed shapes that ring, rather than chop, then you have plenty of voicing choices. A maj for example, you have the standard G chop shape moved up two frets, alternatively there is the open G shape moved up to to give 2245. That one rings nicely and is easier to fret in a hurry, but it doesn't chop so well.

If it's actually the Monroe style shapes you want then what worked for me was to start off playing in a key higher up the neck where the frets are closer together - A or Bb perhaps. Once I was comfortable with the stretches there I'd shift down a fret and get comfy there. I'm quite at home with the chops in G now, although I think chop chords in A "pop" a bit better.

The problem with the pinky muting the next course can be down to a few things. In some cases it's simply thick fingers. In my case it was short fingers - especially the end of the finger after the last joint. Although my fingers aren't fat or thick, they don't have enough reach to always allow me to get the 90 degree angle of descent that Rob describes.

Sometimes it's necessary to adapt a 3 finger version and miss or mute a course. Sometimes I can find another voicing further up the neck. Sometimes I've even had to blag it by playing an open chord and chunking with my palm like one does in 'ukulele technique.

We can't all be Mike Marshall...

[crookedtune]

What I've found:

People who don't play mandolin believe they can't because their hands are too big.

People who do play mandolin wish their hands were even bigger, and do lots of stretching exercises to extend their reach.

The bluegrass chop chords are easy and comfortable after a few months of practice, but by then you're bored, and hungry for altered chords. For that, go to Pete Martin, at Petimar Press: http://www.petimarpress.com/index.html

I, too, am a big fan of the FFcP stuff. Builds pinkies of steel! http://www.jazzmando.com

[Tim2723]

Except for rare individuals with truly gargantuan hands (Andre the Giant comes to mind), almost no one's hands are too big. Their approach may be wrong or their technique faulty, but their hands are usually just fine. Probably the most common single problem is trying to play the mandolin as if it were a little guitar.

[s1m0n]

The notes on a mandolin neck aren't any closer together than they are on a violin, but we rarely hear people complaining that their hands are too big to play fiddle.

[mutepointe]

I am a big man, 6 foot tall and extra large framed. I saw a man who towered over me, at least 6' 6 inches or more and he had an extra, extra exta large frame. He had fingers like hot dogs. He had been a bricklayer so his hands were all calloused. He played a mandolin so sweet. He was almost Andre the Giant. I think even Andre could play the mandolin after seeing that man play.

[Tim2723]

I hope my comment didn't come across wrong. I meant no disrespect to the late Mr. Roussimoff. But not every musical instrument is suited to everyone. There are, for instance, those whose hands are physically too large to effectively play the piano. If your fingers cannot strike a key without also hitting the neighboring keys, the piano wouldn't be your best instrument. Such an individual might not go far as a touch-typist either.